drt1245's Bone Necro Guide

[drt1245]

drt1245's Bone Necro Guide

In 1.10 Bone Necro combos (such as Summoner/Boners) were much easier due to the Marrowwalk Glitch (there was no need to max Bone Prison). However, in 1.11, the Marrowwalk Glitch is gone, and Bone Necros have much less free skill points. Because of this, I will go over several different setups, however the only difference in these setups is in skills (unless you go for max block), the stats and items remain the same.


Stats
Strength - Base. Torch + Anni will provide enough strength for your Enigma, which will allow you to wear the rest of your items.

Dexterity - Base. None of your items should require more dexterity than provided by Torch + Anni. More on Max Block later.

Vitality - Everything else here. You want lots of life.

Energy - Base. You should have a decent amount of mana, and mana pots are easy to get, so there is no need for energy.

Max Block - If you want max block, you should probably use Homunculus for a shield, and you will need to get enough dexterity for 75% chance to block. To do this, every time you level, simply put points in dexterity until you have 75% chance to block.



Items
This section is organized by item class, seperated into the different choices. Blue is best, green is decent, and yellow is...bad (but usually cheap).

Armor
Enigma - Gives teleport and +2 all skills. Get Mage Plate if you have a 20 stats Torch and 20 stats Anni, otherwise, use Breast Plate for the low strength requirement.
Chains of Honor (CoH) - Really not any cheaper than Enigma, and you lose teleport so...get Enigma.
Vipermagi/Que-Hegans - You lose +1 skills, so really you want Enigma. But both of these are a lot cheaper.

Helm
2 Necro Skills, 20 FCR Circlet - You need the 20 FCR, and you want at least +2 PnB skills, so you want either +2/+3 PnB skills or +2 all Necro Skills. +3 PnB skills can only appear on a magic circlet, which takes away from the possibility of other mods. Socket it with an Um if you don't have max resists otherwise, Shael it.
Shako - A good helm for the +2 Skills, Damage Reduction, and Life/Mana. Once again Um it or Shael it.
Shako - If you can't get Shako, don't make this build.

Amulet
Mara's Kaleidoscope - A great amulet for the +2 all skills, 5 stats, and resists. The more resists the better.
Any + Necro/PnB skills amulet - Whatever you can find that adds to your PnB skills.
Any + Necro/PnB skills amulet - Same as above.

Weapon
+8 Bone Spear White Runeword (Dol Io) - Find a 2 socket wand that gives +3 Bone Spear and make the White runeword in it for a total of +8 Bone Spear. Additionally, any other skills on the wand (especially curses, such as Amplify Damage) are great as well. Drognan (the act 2 merchant) occasionally sells them in Normal, but regular wands (the ones that are called "Wand") cannot get 2 sockets and Yew Wands need to be upgraded to be able to get 2 sockets (you can upgrade the wand by putting it in the Horadric Cube along with a Ral & Sol rune and a Perfect Emerald).
Heart of the Oak (Hoto) - Gives more FCR and resists than White, but you lose a lot of + skills. IMO, White is much better.
Boneshade - Adds a lot to most bone spells, but I prefer White.

Shield
+3 Skills Boneflame - You want one with higher resists (30 is max). This is a great shield because of +3 Skills and resists. Socket it with a Perfect Diamond or Um.
+3 PnB Skills Darkforce Spawn - These are more expensive and don't give resists, but give 30 FCR. If you want more FCR, go for this shield. Once again, socket it with a Perfect Diamond or Um.
Homunculus - This is the shield you should use if you go for Max Block, otherwise, try for a Boneflame.

Gloves
Magefists - Great gloves for the 20 FCR and mana regeneration. Very cheap too. Also, the + fire skills gives +1 to Corpse Explosion.
Trang-Oul's Gloves - These gloves give 20 FCR and 30 cold resist, but I prefer the Magefists for mana regeneration.
Bloodfists - Don't use these....really....get Magefists.

Rings
SOJs - +1 Skills and Mana make these great rings.
BK Rings - Gives +1 to all skills like an SOJ, but gives life instead of mana. Generally, SOJs are better for casters.
Rare FCR Ring(s) - You really shouldn't need FCR, but if you insist, go on ahead.

Belt
Arachnid Mesh - The best belt for any caster. +1 all Skills, 20 FCR and even a (very) small mana boost.
Crafted Caster Belt - More FCR is better, but really, try hard to get Arachnid. More info on Caster Belts here (http://battle.net/diablo2exp/items/crafted/caster.shtml).
One of the above - If you can't get either of those, you shouldn't be following this guide.

Boots
Sandstorm Trek - If you can get Ethereal ones, thats even better. These boots give a nice Vitality and Strength bonus, and the Poison Resist is nice when dueling Poison Necros.
Marrowwalk - These give strength and dexterity, so if you want max block, you may want to wear these boots (so you can put less points in dexterity). Additionally, they give +(1-2) skeleton mastery if you plan on summoning.
One of the above - Boots aren't too expensive, get Sandstorms or Marrowwalk.

Charms
Really Good to Have
Necro Torch - Stats is the most important, but high + resists are nice too.
Anni - Once again, stats are more important than resists
PnB Skills Grand Charms - With life or FHR mods are the best, but also much more expensive. Get what you can afford
Also Helps
5 FHR Small Charms (These are really useful, because of this character's lack of other sources of FHR)
18+ Life Small Charms
14+ Mana Small Charms
4+ All Resists Small Charms
Other Stuff
Small Charms with Dexterity if you want to save on points for Max Block
Whatever other charms you can find that do something useful



Skills
Because of the Bone Necro's shortage of skill points, there are several different variants you can use, which I'll go over here.

(Mostly) Pure Bone
Poison and Bone
1 Bone Armor
1 Corpse Explosion
Max Teeth
Max Bone Wall
Max Bone Spear
Max Bone Prison
Max Bone Spirit

Summoning
1 Clay Golem
1 Golem Mastery
1 Summon Resist

Curses
None

Max Bone Prison/Wall last, and make sure you do the summoning skills first (Clay Golem makes a good tank). After you done everything here, you may want to either get curses or skeletons. This variant does more damage, but has less meat shields.



Bone/Summoner
Poison and Bone
1 Bone Armor
1 Corpse Explosion
Max Teeth
Max Bone Wall
Max Bone Spear
Max Bone Spirit
Everything else in Bone Prison

Summoning
0 Skeleton Mastery - You should use either White Runeword or Marrowwalk boots
1 Skeleton
1 Skeleton Mage
1 Clay Golem
1 Golem Mastery
1 Summon Resist
1 Blood Golem
1 Iron Golem
1 Revive
(1 in everything except Skeleton Mastery and Fire Golem)

Curses
None

Bone Prison should get points in it last. It is not possible to max Bone Prison unless you level to 99. This variant will allow you to get an army of meat shields. You skeletons will not be very strong, but your revives should be able to take a beating. This variant will also have slightly less damage (unless you level to 99) because of a synergy that is not maxed.



Tables!




FBR | Frames
------------------
0 | 11
6 | 10
13 | 9
20 | 8
32 | 7
52 | 6
86 | 5
174 | 4

FCR | Frames
------------------
0 | 15
9 | 14
18 | 13
30 | 12
48 | 11
75 | 10
125 | 9

FHR | Frames
------------------
0 | 13
5 | 12
10 | 11
16 | 10
26 | 9
39 | 8
56 | 7
86 | 6
152 | 5


So there's my guide. Please comment.

[L4E]

unless i missed something, that build (the blue) will get u to 100fcr, which is 25fcr too much and 25 too little. I actually think bloodfists would be better than trangs or mages if ur not looking to reach 125fcr, since, like u said, necros barely have FHR

to get 125fcr without sacrificing skills : darkforce should be blue, boneflame should be green
if u dont want 125fcr, well fcr gloves are pointless (or even the circlet could be replaced by shako)

[drt1245]

unless i missed something, that build (the blue) will get u to 100fcr, which is 25fcr too much and 25 too little.
Unless I messed something up, it should get you 80 FCR, enough to get to the 75 breakpoint. Now you got me worried, I keep re-counting it...but I get 80.

[FraterPerdurabo]

Unless I messed something up, it should get you 80 FCR, enough to get to the 75 breakpoint. Now you got me worried, I keep re-counting it...but I get 80.

80%FCR is pointless, and it seems that your build will be lacking on FHR as well. Low FCR and low FHR = bone nec loses his purpose, anyone with even a little skill can own you in a duel, not even speaking of duels in which you have the char disadvantage.

I don't really like your guide for that very reason, you don't list your equipment according to breakpoints. It's not OK to just choose from any of the 3 that you have listed. Make builds including the most effective equipment.

Don't forget the possibility of using Spirit/Stormshield, both can be very effective on a bone nec.

I.e. this is what I had for my bone nec:
+2 nec 20%fcr 2 sox circlet Shael Shael
Enigma
+2nec 20%fcr +mods amu
HOTO
Stormshield "Eld" (alternatively you could use a 7%/+9/+9 facet)
Trangs
Arach
Treks
FCR ring
Soj

FCR: circlet 20 amu 20 hoto 40 trangs 20 arach 20 ring 10 = 130%fcr (125% vital for PvP)
FHR: circlet 40 treks 20 2xpnb skiller 12%fhr + 5%fhr sc +mods or just 6x5%fhr sc + mods = 86%FHR breakpoint (vital for PvP)

You get 43%DR (alternatively I could have used BerShael in circlet, resulting in max dr% but I would have had to make up for the FHR loss) and max block.

VS casters use White instead of HOTO and Spirit instead of Stormshield for massive damage.

If you cannot afford a +2nec 20%fcr amu use a 2nd FCR ring.

[drt1245]

80%FCR is pointless, and it seems that your build will be lacking on FHR as well. Low FCR and low FHR = bone nec loses his purpose, anyone with even a little skill can own you in a duel, not even speaking of duels in which you have the char disadvantage. I disagree on the FCR. I find 80 to be fine, I do just fine it duels. And as far as FHR, your build only has 20 more from items, and that requires either a magic circlet or another mod to spawn on a rare one, which in my experience, are much harder to find. That said, if you can get one, I agree, the extra 20 FHR is very helpful.



Don't forget the possibility of using Spirit/Stormshield, both can be very effective on a bone nec. The only reason I see to use Stormshield would be for DR (and some extra defence), and I have never felt the need for DR on a bone Necro because of his bone armor. If it runs out, you can just recast.



+2nec 20%fcr +mods amu I was under the impression that you were limited to 10 FCR on an amulet, and the Arreat Summit (http://battle.net/diablo2exp/items/magic/suf.shtml) agrees with me. However, I cannot remember if they were availible in an earlier patch or not.



VS casters use White instead of HOTO and Spirit instead of Stormshield for massive damage. With this setup, your FCR ring uses it's effectiveness, you'd be better with another SOJ. And besides, why use Spirit over a 3 PnB Darkforce Spawn?


With your build, I see a massive loss in skills, as well. If I counted correctly, you lose 3 to all PnB skills, and an additional 6 to Bone Spear.

[FraterPerdurabo]

I disagree on the FCR. I find 80 to be fine, I do just fine it duels. And as far as FHR, your build only has 20 more from items, and that requires either a magic circlet or another mod to spawn on a rare one, which in my experience, are much harder to find. That said, if you can get one, I agree, the extra 20 FHR is very helpful.

The only reason I see to use Stormshield would be for DR (and some extra defence), and I have never felt the need for DR on a bone Necro because of his bone armor. If it runs out, you can just recast.

Don't take this offensively, but you are a PvMer. Get some experience in PvP and then you'll see how wrong your statements are.


I was under the impression that you were limited to 10 FCR on an amulet, and the Arreat Summit (http://battle.net/diablo2exp/items/magic/suf.shtml) agrees with me. However, I cannot remember if they were availible in an earlier patch or not.

Crafted caster amu, available in all patches.



With this setup, your FCR ring uses it's effectiveness, you'd be better with another SOJ.
1 soj 1 fcr ring.



And besides, why use Spirit over a 3 PnB Darkforce Spawn?
FHR and resi and mana.


With your build, I see a massive loss in skills, as well. If I counted correctly, you lose 3 to all PnB skills, and an additional 6 to Bone Spear.

Like I said, your build is fine for PvM, but in PvP you have to sacrifice a lot of damage for safety.

[drt1245]

Don't take this offensively, but you are a PvMer. Get some experience in PvP and then you'll see how wrong your statements are. Wow...thats the most one of the most senseless arguments I've heard. If you reread what I wrote, you'll see that was my opinion, and in my what I've found based on my experience...just because you disagree doesn't mean I'm wrong. Different people duel different ways...




Crafted caster amu, available in all patches. Eek...I can't believe I forgot that.



1 soj 1 fcr ring. What I'm saying here is that with White and Spirit, your FCR ring is not needed to reach another breakpoint, so I belive you'd be better off with the extra skill from an SOJ.



FHR and resi and mana. I suppose you're right about the Spirit. I'd forgotten just how much FHR it gives, but as far as resists, you can Um a Darkforce...but, you're right the mana & FHR do make Spirit better.

[FraterPerdurabo]

Ok, I'll explain what I mean.

I disagree on the FCR. I find 80 to be fine, I do just fine it duels. And as far as FHR, your build only has 20 more from items, and that requires either a magic circlet or another mod to spawn on a rare one, which in my experience, are much harder to find. That said, if you can get one, I agree, the extra 20 FHR is very helpful.

Invalid point. PvP is all about frames. If you have slow FCR, you are an easy target. If you have low FHR, you will be FHR locked after the first hit = gg.

PvP is not for you if you aren't rich. You don't find items, you buy them.



The only reason I see to use Stormshield would be for DR (and some extra defence), and I have never felt the need for DR on a bone Necro because of his bone armor. If it runs out, you can just recast.

Nice idea, but not that simple. It's like saying that a Wind Druid might as well have negative resists since he can recast Cyclone Armor.

[drt1245]

PvP is all about frames. I agree that frames are important, but even so, it doesn't matter how fast you attack (or move) if you don't do enough damage.




If you have slow FCR, you are an easy target. True. However, Necros have a somewhat fast cast rate to begin with, as such, the 75 FCR breakpoint will get you to the same speed as a 163 FCR Druid. I don't find it to be too slow.




If you have low FHR, you will be FHR locked after the first hit = gg. I agreed with you on getting the a better FHR circlet if possible, and that was really the only FHR difference...




PvP is not for you if you aren't rich. You don't find items, you buy them. I agree that PvP is not cheap, but it is quite possible to find items. I found my 20 FCR Necro circlet, and I find it to be one of the nicer ones that I've seen.




Nice idea, but not that simple. It's like saying that a Wind Druid might as well have negative resists since he can recast Cyclone Armor. You do have somewhat of a point, however, getting resists for a Wind Druid is much easier than getting DR on a Bone Necro. Grab a Torch, Anni, Maras, Hoto, and Spirit, and you'll have decent resists on a Wind Druid, and with practically no loss.

However, getting DR on a Bone Necro is much more difficult, partially due to there being less items that actually give DR. It really comes down to personal preference... whether you'd rather do more damage, or have more DR. Personally, I prefer damage.

[FraterPerdurabo]

I agree that frames are important, but even so, it doesn't matter how fast you attack (or move) if you don't do enough damage.Damage is useless if you cannot get a shot at someone. I have already said this many times. PvP is not for glass cannons, PvP is all about safety. Yes, you should sacrifice extra damage for more safety.


True. However, Necros have a somewhat fast cast rate to begin with, as such, the 75 FCR breakpoint will get you to the same speed as a 163 FCR Druid. I don't find it to be too slow.

I agreed with you on getting the a better FHR circlet if possible, and that was really the only FHR difference...
I'll give you an example. Wind Druids have a massive character advantage over a bone necro. A bone nec with slow FHR is the easiest shit that you could ever duel. Now, there are 2 things that a bone nec needs to beat druid:
1) More skill
2) A proper char. If he is being held back because his char sucks (slow frames) he will be regretting it.

Don't get into this discussion with me. A necro has exactly the same frames as a paladin. Ever seen a 75%fcr pala do PvP? He gets raped by MF sorcs. Also, on that topic, no good Hammerdin will ever take on a Wind Druid without 86%FHR, some even use CoA in order to get max DR%. I'm not suggesting that you use CoA, but DR% and 125%FCR/86%FHR are absolutely vital in many duels.

I mean damn, have you dueled a 200%FCR FB sorc with your 75%fcr necro?




You do have somewhat of a point, however, getting resists for a Wind Druid is much easier than getting DR on a Bone Necro. Grab a Torch, Anni, Maras, Hoto, and Spirit, and you'll have decent resists on a Wind Druid, and with practically no loss.

However, getting DR on a Bone Necro is much more difficult, partially due to there being less items that actually give DR. It really comes down to personal preference... whether you'd rather do more damage, or have more DR. Personally, I prefer damage.

Getting resists (especially Fire) is not easy on a Wind Druid. I have a perf Torch, high anni (18-16-8 I think), Hoto and I still need many SCs with Fire resi to get to 75%.
By the way:
1) Spirit doesn't give Fire resist
2) No self-respectable Druid will ever use Mara

On the other hand, getting max DR% on a Nec is not difficult at all, throw on SS with Ber, exactly as I did with my Nec, or as I do with my Druid. Yes, you do sacrifice some damage, but PvP in PvP safety > damage.

It's not about personal preference, it's about what works and what doesn't.

[db_jynx]

drt... you should really take other people's suggestions and try them out, rather than just viocing opinion. i really can't believe that you duel anyone other then pubs, posibbly even melee pubs.

with anything less than 125%fcr on a boner, it's completely pointless. i played around with my friend'd boner, who had the 75%fcr BP and got tore apart by any respectable dueler. i then proceeded to throw on a spirit and some fcr gear hitting the 125/86 BPs. he then proceeded to duel fairly well in most duels. it just isn't viable to build a Boner (let alone ANY PvPer) without hitting the essential BPs. it's so very very easy to hit the 125 without sacrificing much damage.. you said you lose 3 skills? (not about to count) Even if you lose 5 skills, you're better off hitting that BP.

Dueling is ALL about frames, like frater said...Speed > Damage any day... take a 125%fcr Sorc vs a 200%fcr sorc... the 200 will never ever ever EVER lose vs the 2-5k more damage sorc, just due to the fact that you'll be running circles around the other guy...Literally. And you'll be shooting Fireballs/Bone Spears/Bone Spirits/Teeth at such a higher rate and teleing around the other guy with ease. Your loss of skills means crap compared to speed. As frater said, my 200fcr vita Fballer would own your 75fcr boner it most likely 2-3 seconds. You MAY get 1 shot off, if you were lucky.

Seriously, try these frames and you wont want to go back, it's pointless. If you dont want to, then go to real PW protected duels with people that have skill/gear. You won't win, guarunteed.

On your "finding items" point. Impossible, if you bot, you can find some decent items, if you MF, good luck bro. As frater said, it's about buying them, not necessarily for $$, but for HRs / SOJs. I started with an enigma/hoto/shako this past ladder and ended with currently 3.5k Forum Gold (@5fg per HR) and a ton of crap yet to sell. It's all about finding what people want, buying low and selling high. MF never comes into play. Your a chump if you think you're going to MF all your gear, sadly. Mid ladder, i bought a pair of Eth 15/15 treks for ~5HRs and sold em for 60... just one of the many items like that. You may find/gamble/imbue a nice circlet, but you wont find everything other godly item for your PvPer... it's about accumulating wealth and then trading bro.

[drt1245]

@FraterPerdurabo
This argument is getting quite pointless, as we seem to keep going back and forth without changing anything.



drt... you should really take other people's suggestions and try them out, rather than just viocing opinion. i really can't believe that you duel anyone other then pubs, posibbly even melee pubs. Interesting...I wasn't aware that you know what I've tried and what I havn't. Are you watching my computer, sitting outside my window, checking to see if I've tried a faster breakpoint?




with anything less than 125%fcr on a boner, it's completely pointless. i played around with my friend'd boner, who had the 75%fcr BP and got tore apart by any respectable dueler. i then proceeded to throw on a spirit and some fcr gear hitting the 125/86 BPs. he then proceeded to duel fairly well in most duels. it just isn't viable to build a Boner (let alone ANY PvPer) without hitting the essential BPs. it's so very very easy to hit the 125 without sacrificing much damage.. you said you lose 3 skills? (not about to count) Even if you lose 5 skills, you're better off hitting that BP. I actually said you lose 3 PnB skills, but a total of 9 Bone Spear. That is a really big difference. By my calculations, an awesome 125 FCR Bone Necro would do 14,555 damage per second, whereas a 75 FCR Bone Necro would do 16,400 damage per second. But nonetheless, in your experience you do better with a faster breakpoint, I prefer more damage. It's not "completely pointless".




Dueling is ALL about frames, like frater said...Speed > Damage any day... take a 125%fcr Sorc vs a 200%fcr sorc... the 200 will never ever ever EVER lose vs the 2-5k more damage sorc, just due to the fact that you'll be running circles around the other guy...Literally. And you'll be shooting Fireballs/Bone Spears/Bone Spirits/Teeth at such a higher rate and teleing around the other guy with ease. Your loss of skills means crap compared to speed. As frater said, my 200fcr vita Fballer would own your 75fcr boner it most likely 2-3 seconds. You MAY get 1 shot off, if you were lucky. Making statements like this is so pointless. You have no way of knowing this so....just don't...




Seriously, try these frames and you wont want to go back, it's pointless. If you dont want to, then go to real PW protected duels with people that have skill/gear. You won't win, guarunteed. I have tried those frames and I did go back.




On your "finding items" point. Impossible, if you bot, you can find some decent items, if you MF, good luck bro. As frater said, it's about buying them, not necessarily for $$, but for HRs / SOJs. I started with an enigma/hoto/shako this past ladder and ended with currently 3.5k Forum Gold (@5fg per HR) and a ton of crap yet to sell. It's all about finding what people want, buying low and selling high. MF never comes into play. Your a chump if you think you're going to MF all your gear, sadly. Mid ladder, i bought a pair of Eth 15/15 treks for ~5HRs and sold em for 60... just one of the many items like that. You may find/gamble/imbue a nice circlet, but you wont find everything other godly item for your PvPer... it's about accumulating wealth and then trading bro. Thats funny, I don't seem the remember saying I MFed all my gear. I thought I typed that I found one item. Let me check....yup. And how do you accumulate wealth? You start off MFing.

[db_jynx]

dude... it wasn't meant to be a flame post. i just can't see how you duel any decent dueler with those BPs.

i am not about to check your calculations on dmg vs speed etc.. my point and i believe frater (and anyone else's point to speed>dmg) is the fact that you will be able to tele and use spear/spirit/teeth MUCH faster than the next frame down. in order to get away from a sorc/barb/zon/windy etc.. you will need a fast tele and a quick shot. it's all about timing, skill, and speed. 2k damage is peanuts (1/6th 2k = 333.33 dmg), you're not losing a whole lot yet you gain so much more in your ability to cast/tele 1 frame faster.

you obviously are sticking to your guns about the 75 bp. i really think you should have incorperated gear for a 125 build however, as it is so much more common among non-pub duelers. also discuss why you would suggest 75 or 125 etc (the adv and disadv to both).

no i have no idea of the bps you have tried nor do i know for sure if a 200fcr sorc would kill you in 3 seconds... try and read through the lines... i'm saying that i can't remember a time when i lost a boner, let alone a 75fcr boner with my sorc. the minimal experiance i ahve using a boner, i couldnt stand the 75fcr bp and died nearly every time with dmg gear, once i switched to fcr gear i could manuver with ease, shoot much faster, and did fairly well in duels.

you're right, you have to start somewhere and MF a bit, just saying, the easiest way to get rich quick is to buy low sell high.

anyway, do what you will, neither of us are going to make an impression on you, nor your guide. you asked for comments, i gave mine, and i still can't believe that build will work too well PvP. low FCR builds just dont cut it 1.11. take it easy man, gl with him

[darknight512]

*edit: my post was stupid and wrong, forgive me :)