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+--- Thread: What is your opinion on gay people and gay marriage? (/thread-27972.html)
What is your opinion on gay people and gay marriage? - Cacogen - 05-21-2006
I originally came to this sight just go dl a mh I heard about, but this threat caught my attention. I read the whole thing and was so urked and just had to post a reply. Perhaps being gay myself will bear more weight.
First off I obviously don't have anything wrong with gays and I do not see a problem with gay marriage. However, I personally have no desire to get married. Isn't marriage a religious symbol? Why on earth would I want to be part of something that hates me for what I am and believes I shall go to hell for doing what I do; no thank you.
In regards to me being born this way. I believe that in every way. My family couldnt be more homophopic or believe in their religion more(catholic). I mean they don't like blacks either........ This goes back to a thread I read before. I tried anything I could to be straight and deny that I am gay(I am simply pointing out how close minded they are). It wasn't until I realized that it wasn't the woman in sex scenes of movies that got to me. I also agree with some of the previous posters saying that it is a mental state or something of that manner. I mean, there are varying degrees of "gay". There are the completely 100% heterosexuals that are disgusted by the thought of two men being together. Then, there are the bi-curious, the completely bi, etc. I would have to fall in to the category of being disgusted by the thought of being with a woman.
Lots of the stereotypes for gays just cannot be accurate just like stereotypes for jews can't but they are still commonly used and widely known. However personally I can't stand seeing gay guys act like women or dressing up like them, although I guess that makes me a hypocrite; so be it. I act straight in every way no one would ever know that I am gay and they never will. Except I love techno and dance music which I think is peculiar.
I saw some threads where people said they hate gays and would love killing us all if they could. Then immediatly after everyone gets angry with them and tells them to plz leave some basis behind their arguments. Well why should they have to leave any points at all. There's nothing wrong with what they are saying because it is the truth. Sadly, here in America that is the logic of most of the people that hate gays. It disgusts them, they don't understand it, so therefore they must hate it. Lots of people still feel this way which is why I did say no one will ever know I am... Except for here of course.
I don't have too much opinion with everyone's religious arguments I have never read the bible and don't really plan too. It didn't take me long to think it was all just a load of bs. I do not need fancy buildings and titles to believe in God. However I also believe in evolution so I kind of contradict myself I suppose. Well that's my two cents, sorry about the essay.
What is your opinion on gay people and gay marriage? - Z3R0 - 05-22-2006
You can't really keep something like that from people too long. Soon people will start recognizing how you act in certain situations and how you respond to certain things, such as comments and gestures, so forth. I agree that people do not try to understand what is differant, but take a very carful look at the make and female anatomy. Does it not apear that they are that way for a reason, are they not supposed to go together? I do not hate homosexuals but I do find the thought of same sex relations to be an abomination, I think it is not meant to be, but the world will always be left to free will, everyone will make their own choices.
What is your opinion on gay people and gay marriage? - DaCougarMech - 05-22-2006
the human sexual anatomy does serve the purpose to procreate and create offspring because the key to survival is reproduction but who is to say that the ability to reproduce is that important. if you look at it from a scientific standpoint, we only have the sexual organs and sexual instinct we have now because a man and a woman had sex and passed on genes for a pen!s and a \/agina. face it, if there were 99 gay couples and one straight couple and they all had sex, the only one to be to reproduce would be the straight couple and they would pass on their genes. sex has multiple uses. one is obviously procreation and that is something bred into our genes over hundreds of millions of years. the other is to create a bond between partners. in my opinion, this bond can take place regardless of gender
zerokool, you say that the male and female anatomy go together. i wont argue with you on that. they go together to reproduce. however, do you think that this anatomy is what is supposed to define a relationship? do you think that pure reproductive power is all that is needed for a loving relationship?
there are gay couples out there that love each other very dearly, zerokool. i dare you to question their devotion
What is your opinion on gay people and gay marriage? - BlindMansTicket - 05-23-2006
He won't, but his "god" will in his words.
What is your opinion on gay people and gay marriage? - Aemaeth - 05-23-2006
What the **** is with the smilies in this post. GR!
As far as what's actually in the Bible, there are 3 major places that homophobic Christians use to justify their hatred:
SODOM AND GOMORRAH
As someone already pointed out, this story has been twisted. A mob tries to RAPE a couple of angels. Rape would be wrong for anyone. Furthermore, homosexual rape was well known as a humiliating form of assault in biblical times that HETEROSEXUALS routinely committed (think prison). And finally, Lot is supposedly the good guy of the story, but he tries to appease the crowd by offering them his daughters (in a later story, #1 dad goes on to father children by both of his daughters).
LAWS IN LEVITICUS AND DEUTERONOMY
This is the point of the most hypocrisy and stupidity on the part of homophobic Christians. These books are just records of ancient Hebrew laws and holiness codes, many of which are totally abritrary (don't make clothes from two different kinds of thread), and most of which are morally ****ed up by today's standards.
If we lived by all of these laws, slavery, prostitution, animal sacrifice and levirate marriage (a widow must marry her dead spouse's brother) would all be legal and condoned, while ridiculous things like eating shellfish and getting your hair cut a certain way. Homophobic Christians pluck out that one reference to men lying with other men and conveniently ignore everything else from this part of the Bible.
PAUL IN THE NEW TESTAMENT
The major issue in Paul's writings is that they've been mistranslated. In some Bibles he supposedly condemns "homosexuals", which is pretty ****ing miraculous considering that the word "homosexual", AND THE CONCEPT IT IMPLIES, were invented in the late 19th century. Common words for homosexual relationships existed in Paul's time, but instead he picked two obscure Greek words that nobody has been able to correctly translate. Christians have taken them to mean various things down through the years: adulterers, prostitutes, masturbators, etc. It's just become "homosexual" in recent years because of homophobia (and yes, believe it or not, homophobia is a relatively modern thing, despite how "traditional" and ingrained it might appear to some of us who have to live during it).
The other problematic place is where Paul criticizes people for abandoning "natural" relations and falling into lust with one another. It's important to remember though that Paul developed his brand of Christianity IN OPPOSITION to the other religions of his time, which he saw as competitors. Many Pagan cults incorporated prostitution, orgies and other fluid forms of sexual expression in their rituals. Paul was most likely talking about temple prostitution and other such things he associated with Paganism.
Anyone who knows half a thing about gay people will immediately realize that: a.) most gay people are born gay, they don't start out straight and "abandon" natural relations, b.) that since homosexuality has been a constant througout human history and is present in more than 450 animal species, it is obviously "natural", and c.) the key moral concern in this story is LUST, which is wrong for anyone, gay or straight.
(Lest someone think I'm anti-casual sex, I personally define lust as objectifying and using someone to the exclusion of their basic humanity. I personally don't think there's anything wrong with wild Pagan sex orgies provided everyone is safe, consensual and respectful)
Anyway, to sum up:
Homophobic Christians are completely full of shit. The Bible only "condemns" gay people when you take words completely out of context, ignore the cultures and personalities of the authors, ignore everything to the left and right of the verse you are using, and read it only in English, mistranslated.
Fundamentalists claim to give a shit about the Bible, yet they refuse to read it in its original language and think critically about it, and half the shit they say isn't even in there. You would think if they cared so much about it they would take the time to study it comprehensively.
ADDITIONAL NOTE ON MARRIAGE:
Full-of-shit fundies claim "marriage is between a man and a woman", and that it has always been that way. Apparently they haven't even read the ****ing Bible!!!. For one thing, POLYGAMY in the Bible is just as normal and condoned as the "nuclear" family. Numerous characters have multiple wives - King Solomon had 700 wives and 300 concubines!!
There are a total of 8 types of marriage in the Bible, and none of them resembles modern marriage. Even the so-called "nuclear" family of one man and one woman was drastically different. In Biblical times and cultures, women were considered objects. When a woman got married, she relinquished all rights and property to her husband, and was expected to submit sexually to him regardless of her feelings. Marriages were most often arranged by friends or family members. If two people happened to actually fall in love, then great! Otherwise, the woman basically had to submit to serial rape for the rest of her earthly life.
The eight forms of marriage are:
1. man + woman (nuclear, but again, the woman has very few rights and must submit to her husband)
2. man + woman + woman + woman... (polygymy)
3. man + woman/women + concubine(s)
4. man + woman + her "property", a female slave
5. male soldier + female prisoner of war*(see below for even more bullshit)
6. male rapist + victim (from the law I mentioned above)
7. man + dead brother's widow (again she must submit sexually whether or not she likes it)
8. male slave + female slave (a slave owner can "assign" females to his male slaves. Males and females were treated differently however. A male slave was normally free after 7 years, whereas a female slave who was sold into slavery by her father would remain one for life. If the slaves paired up had children, those children were also the property of the slave owner. So when daddy slave's 7 years were up, he faced a choice: abandon his family, or remain with them... as a voluntary slave)
*EXTRA BIBLE BULLSHIT FOR YOUR ENTERTAINMENT
We've all heard "thou shalt not kill". The fundies against women's right to choose use it all the time, saying abortion is murder and murder is always wrong. Funny you don't see them protesting war, homophobia, poverty, or anything else that causes death, or giving a rip whether or not the mother might die a horrible painful death in childbirth.
Well anyway, right after Moses gives this law to the Hebrews, in the book of Numbers he is instructed by God to lead an army against the Midianites. The Hebrews kill all the Midianite men, only to come back to an infuriated Moses. He's pissed because they've left the women and children alive. So he orders them to go back and finish the job, but they are allowed to keep any virgins as wives for themselves (spoils of war).
So was Moses completely full of shit, like the fundies are today? Not exactly. Just like today, nations had laws for themselves, not for everyone else outside their nation. Moses didn't want his people killing each other. He never intended for this law to become deified and worshipped by everyone all over the world.
What is your opinion on gay people and gay marriage? - Venom - 05-23-2006
wow plat just ****in wow man
(first time i'v ever read a post so long
)so much biblical bs!
i never thought the bible was that messed up
the marrages really got me
this furthers my disbelif in the bible and it's own teachings
What is your opinion on gay people and gay marriage? - DaCougarMech - 05-23-2006
if there was a teabag smily you should have put it at the end of your post because that essentially owned their arguements
What is your opinion on gay people and gay marriage? - Thaqui - 05-23-2006
I stumbled upon this post tonight and couldn't help but read through the entire thing in morbid curiosity. I do like arguments like this, but it is painful when people throw out their opinions as facts without any reasoning. I'm not talking about religion in general, but it seems that not too many are clued up about their own reasoning. I'd hope that some would read through this to either argue that I am mistaken, or even perhaps get a better understanding behind the debate. Then again, I've been on Diablo forums before... this first paragraph is probably too long for most devilish:
Xx~WEEd~xX Wrote:its a mental state!!!!!!! some ppl chose but true gays are mentaly unstable!!!!!! dont belive me? look it up in a medical dictionary humans are naturaly attracted to the opposite sex wen there is a disbalance in our chromosomes we become unstable!!! and there are things in life that we dont choose there just the way we are
Additional Comment:
ask a psychologist they will tell u
In 1973, the American Psychiatric Association (APA) removed homosexuality as a mental disorder from the APA's Diagnostic and Statistical Manual Of Mental Disorders (DSM-II).
Xx~WEEd~xX Wrote:naturaly all animals are attracted to the opposite sex the only animals who can be gay are humans.
Homosexuality has been noted in over 450 species of animal.
Now, the argument that people are 'born gay' is a trickier one. On one side, there's gays saying "Take my word for it, it's true" - but there's little real way of proving in. On the other side, you have the anti-gays (true fact: if you merge a gay and an anti-gay, they explode creating a crater the size of Turkey) sticking their nosy beaks in and making assumptions on something they have no personal experience with.
Personally, I believe in the 'born gay' camp, and so it seems are many anti-gay Christians - I just read a church promo on a homosexual man who has a wife and children because of his faith, and still struggles with the fact he is homosexual every day. To me, this seems very unhealthy - he is going to be conflicted because of his sexual desire towards men, his poor wife has a husband that isn't attracted to her, and that sort of environment is not conducive to a healthy childhood.
There is of course the point that while you may not be able to control what you feel, you can always control what you do. As I said above, however, I do not believe it is healthy for anyone to supress feelings like that - it can make you angry, bitter and awkward.
As a rather liberal person myself, I do not like the idea of pushing ideals or beliefs on someone else. If homosexuality was harmful or had any negative consequences, then yes, perhaps there would be a point. However, to me it seems like nosy busybodies trying to prevent something which has absolutely no effect on themselves. No one is forced to attend, or conduct gay marriages against their will - so how does having Adam and Steve at 11 Whogivesashit St being married affect anyone but themselves?
Now, as for the religious debate, there are three parts to it I like to argue.
First, you must prove that your particular flavour of religion is the right one. What makes "God created the earth in six days and on the eigth day he rested" any more correct than "Cronus cut off his father Uranus' genitals and threw them forth into the sea, and from the foam arose Aphrodite". Most religions are mutually contradictory, especially modern Christian/Jewish/Islamic religions, which specifically state theirs can be the only religion. Even off-shoots/cults/sects of different religions can be at odds with each other. So why exactly should your particular interpretation of your particular holy book apply to someone who does not believe in it.
Let me put it this way: If you are Christian, then you believe that the Jews are going to hell, as they do not believe in Jesus. What is it that makes you right, and them wrong?
Secondly, the bible changes with the opinions and motives of those who wield it. Don't believe me? Look at the growing anti-homosexual sentiment in the church. Now look at the older King James bible compared to the New International Version:
King James 1 Corinthians 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind
New International Version 1 Corinthians 6:9 Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor practicing homosexuals
The bible is changing, it has been changed, and it is changed by people who have agendas. The translation from "abusers of themselves with mankind" to "practicing homosexuals" is a big leap, especially since the bible in it's original language did not have such a word.
Thirdly, the bible seems to be neatly ignored for the most part, yet a tiny part is thumped again and again so much that it is wearing thin. The bible contains famously three passages that denounce homosexuality. One is the 1 Corinthians 6:9 that I quoted earlier. Two are from Leviticus, which should be noted is part of the Old Testament.
Ok, so 3 vague references to 'gays are bad' in the bible. Now, how about:
367 direct contradictions in the bible
194 False prophesies, broken promises and misquotes
and let's not forget women:
Women are the possession of men (Don't ask me to quote specific passages, just open your bible to a random place, you'll find one)
If a betrothed virgin is raped in the city and doesn't cry out loud enough, then "the men of the city shall stone her to death." 22:23-24
Women are commanded by Paul to be silent in church and to be obedient to men. He further says that "if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in church." 14:34-35
Women are to dress modestly, "with shamefacedness" -- "not with braided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array." 2:9
In the last days, "silly women" who are "ever learning" will be "led away with divers lusts." 3:6-7
That's just a smattering of what you can find in the bible, easily a hundred different verses of women being inferior to men. So, why the concentration on three vague verses when there are hundreds to justify treating women like crap?
I'd like to see some more arguments here, coming from religion or otherwise... is there anything I missed?
What is your opinion on gay people and gay marriage? - Mathalamus - 05-30-2006
Platinum Wrote:I bet you have NO problems with lesbians though. =/
i have no problem with that but they sound weird
What is your opinion on gay people and gay marriage? - XNightxRavenX - 05-31-2006
i got nothin against gays, but i dont feel they should be able to marry.... because only a man and a women are able conseive a chilc not a man and a man or a women and a women, we were created this way because it only makes sence that being gay is completely wrong, because gays cant keep the population growing, so they are actually hurrting the population.
What is your opinion on gay people and gay marriage? - Bloodangel26 - 05-31-2006
as someone pointed out, i think it might have been platinum, is it really hurting the population that some of us dont breed? the population of the earth is growing exponentially as is. eventually there is going to be overpopulation problems.
and what does not being able to have children have to do with marriage? theres millions of people out there who physically cannot have children due to medical conditions, should they not be allowed to marry too? some people just dont want to have kids, should we take away their right to marry too?
your argument is very flawed. and how can you say you have nothing against gays and want to take away their rights at the same time? its one or the other. you have to have something against a group of people to want them to not have rights.
What is your opinion on gay people and gay marriage? - XNightxRavenX - 05-31-2006
medical conditions buddy, they cant help that, gay people are choosing to be gay and hurt the population, yes sure the population is growing but so is the opulation of gays growing, and eventually it will hurt the population
What is your opinion on gay people and gay marriage? - Bloodangel26 - 05-31-2006
ugh...ATTRACTION IS NOT A CHOICE, YOU CANNOT CHOOSE WHO YOU ARE ATTRACTED TO!! gay people do not choose to be gay, it is just how they are.
its the same thing as why hot chicks like to date douchebags and guys who abuse them.
Additional Comment:
so you are saying that eventually there will be so many gay people not reproducing that the earth's population will start to decline?
What is your opinion on gay people and gay marriage? - XNightxRavenX - 05-31-2006
yes im saying that...and are you seriously trying to tell me that there is a gene in people that turns people gay and makes girls attracted to douchebags, no there isnt they choose to be gay, most of the times because their dads either abused them or disowned them.
What is your opinion on gay people and gay marriage? - Bloodangel26 - 05-31-2006
if you seriously believe any of what you just said, you are a lot dumber than i thought...and probably will never have a girlfriend. or worse, you'll have a wife that owns your balls
What is your opinion on gay people and gay marriage? - XNightxRavenX - 05-31-2006
hahaha okay buddy im actually dating a girl right now(who doesnt have a hold of my balls)and im very happy thank you. unlike you who probably rubs one off each night to an avatar. hey on another note, do you watch UFC?
Additional Comment:
o ya and that gay gene actually was scientifically proven false
What is your opinion on gay people and gay marriage? - Bloodangel26 - 05-31-2006
lol...why date 1 girl when i can date a few? since i actually understand that attraction isnt a choice, i can get girls whenever i want, thanks. yes i watch ufc.
What is your opinion on gay people and gay marriage? - DaCougarMech - 05-31-2006
so what you are saying is that homosexuals CHOOSE TO BE ABUSED OR DISOWNED???
can you prove that there isnt a gene for homosexuality? we have only barely cracked the genetic code and what we do know barely scratches the surface.
i challenge you to ask any homosexual whether or not they uh..."CHOSE" to become a homosexual. i ask you this. in this time where people are still so hostile toward homosexuals, would you CHOOSE to become a homosexual? to better phrase it like you, are you seriously trying to tell me that i can wake up and calmly decide that i want to be attracted to men now?
you are a ****ing idiot. nothing you say makes the least amount of sense. your logic and reasoning are absent at best and it is of my opinion that you belong in special education
What is your opinion on gay people and gay marriage? - XNightxRavenX - 05-31-2006
ummm buddy they dont exactly just chose ot be gay they get impulses but there is no gene theyve tried dozens of time to isolate one each time theyve failed....and did u catch that hughes vs gracie fight?
What is your opinion on gay people and gay marriage? - Bloodangel26 - 05-31-2006
YOU SAID THEY CHOOSE TO BE GAY!! wtf now you are reversing your position. and yes i saw that fight