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+--- Thread: Public School's, religon and holidays (/thread-14717.html)
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Public School's, religon and holidays - Obfuscate - 01-26-2005
Well in recent days/weeks the subject of public schools and the religous holidays they observe has become a hot bed political issue that strains the delicate threads that bind religous faction to their chossen politicians.
It all started quite simply with a request that the day(s) following ramadan(SP?), which are holy days to the musslim faith, be days off for either all children in the public school system or at least for those who are practicing muslims. The basis for this request was that scine children get days off for Christmas why cant we, the muslims get the days off following Ramadan, a holy time in which musslim fast? The school board responded by pretty much blowing off the request stating that an already existing law in the law books states that any child can be given an excussed absence from school due to religous reasons. Well apparently this was not a satisfactory answer for the musslim commite that submitted the request as they didnt want their children to be "penalized" for practicing their religon and instead, for lack of better terms, demanded that at the very least musslim children who observe the musslim religon should be give those days as days off or vacation days which would not be counted as an absence. Again the school board came back and restated their previous argument adding that in order to do so they would have to poll schools and find out if there were enough children who observed these holy days to "require" those days be set aside for days off or vacation days.
With all that being said I would like to know what you think. Do you think that the public school system should give children days off for the days following ramadan or do you think that its an unreasonable request and children already get to many days off as it is which of courese makes it so teachers must cram more material into an already crowded school year scheduel?
Public School's, religon and holidays - [/sarcasm] - 01-28-2005
This is actually a very good topic that I'm surprised hasn't been brought up earlier. The school calendar is obviously ancient, back when the only religion that mattered was Christianity (while, sadly, people still think that is the case) and I am somewhat glad that I am an Atheist. The school board would much rather leave it the way it has been satisfying the main of the population than to make other religions feel welcome in the country... So simply, many people would much rather have every religion respected, but it's just not going to happen in this Christian-dominated society.
Public School's, religon and holidays - qweeve - 01-28-2005
I say remove all holidays from the school year. Problem solved. There are no summer vacations and spring breaks in the real world, may as well get used to it while you are still in school. Hmm, this gives me an idea for another school related topic.
Public School's, religon and holidays - Obfuscate - 01-29-2005
Personally I'm in complete favor of year round schooling. Nine weeks of school two weeks off in a reapeating cycle. If any holiday happens to fall in those two weeks so be it. The holidays that should be observed are those in which the goverment has set aside as holidays. Children should go to school all other days. To me this would help alleviate alot pressure on teachers who have to prepare 18weeks worth of material at a time. With 9 on and 2 off this would allow teachers to integrate new material every 9 weeks and/or delete material in which they feel is not required and so on. Along with year round schooling I'm in favor of 7 class days as opposed to the new rapidly spreading "block" schedueling that is going on. This too has created more problems for teachers as they now have to cram what was 36weeks of material into half the time.
In a revised 36week course with year round schooling with goverment declared holidays observed only I firmly believe that students would learn more and teachers would actually be able to teach and be creative about it. But thats just IMPO.
Public School's, religon and holidays - Nubli - 01-29-2005
Relgion is ok as long as one doesn't impose it on others.
Public School's, religon and holidays - Obfuscate - 01-29-2005
N u b l i Wrote:Relgion is ok as long as one doesn't impose it on others.
I take it your not a Bush supporter then aye?
If Bush has his way we will all be sexually supressed and spending 99% of the budget on keeping peace in the middle east all in the name of freedom, and secretly Christianity.
Public School's, religon and holidays - [Ghost] - 01-29-2005
Sinner, you are obviously new here. Nubli is anti-bush. Look at his postings and threads.
Public School's, religon and holidays - Obfuscate - 01-29-2005
[Death] Wrote:Sinner, you are obviously new here. Nubli is anti-bush. Look at his postings and threads.
Well I dont search out his posts. It has nothing to do with how new or old I am.
Public School's, religon and holidays - Foog - 01-29-2005
Sinner, let me first say that you're a very intelligent person, and it's really obvious the way that you type and post. i'm proud to be a part of forums that have people like you. while you and i might not share some vital opinions (i'm a christian, and a republican) you're still a great mind. THAT being said, you're completely wrong in any way and you should be beaten into the ground forcefully. HA! just kidding. i think that since christianity, having over a billion members worldwide, and being the biggest and most powerful religion out there, should ahve its holidays off, while islam, which isn't as big, shouldn't. that means that, if they give ramadan off, that i can create a religion, create a holiday, and say that i demand school off for it? in respect for my religion? i think the buck stops here, and only the big dog deserves a day off. THAT being said, i actually am in strong agreement with Sinner's earlier post about the schooling scedule. my mom's a teacher, and i know what it's like, she's in a frenzy most of the year trying to prepare and what not. glad to "argue" with someone like you, sinner.
Public School's, religon and holidays - Obfuscate - 01-29-2005
foog Wrote:Sinner, let me first say that you're a very intelligent person, and it's really obvious the way that you type and post. i'm proud to be a part of forums that have people like you. while you and i might not share some vital opinions (i'm a christian, and a republican) you're still a great mind. THAT being said, you're completely wrong in any way and you should be beaten into the ground forcefully. HA! just kidding. i think that since christianity, having over a billion members worldwide, and being the biggest and most powerful religion out there, should ahve its holidays off, while islam, which isn't as big, shouldn't. that means that, if they give ramadan off, that i can create a religion, create a holiday, and say that i demand school off for it? in respect for my religion? i think the buck stops here, and only the big dog deserves a day off. THAT being said, i actually am in strong agreement with Sinner's earlier post about the schooling scedule. my mom's a teacher, and i know what it's like, she's in a frenzy most of the year trying to prepare and what not. glad to "argue" with someone like you, sinner.
LOL! Well for one I'm a registered Liberal. Two I'm about as hard core as they come when it comes to being an Atheist, there's a reason the bible is the #1 best selling FICTION book of all time. But getting one to your actuall point...the system, as with all, will come to be abused or attempted to be abused. By use of bribes, strongarming, threats and the like its a fact of buracrecy. With power comes corruption and without corription...well its a fallacy if you think you can have a buracrecy without corruption. With that reasoning is why I have come to ultimate conclusion that in order to eliminate corruption one must dissasoiate school, goverment and religon from one another. To do this you have to create a self-sustaining system built upon people who due to fair pay and achievable objectives believe, respect and follow the rules set within. It may sound like I want to create a completely NEW branch of the goverment...and I do. I know I know I said we need to dissasoiate school and goverment. The problem with COMPLETLY doing this? Funding. Unless we make all school's private tution based schools there would be no funding so to compromise we simply integrate school into goverment and make it a larger part of the picture. A branch of the goverment dedicated to the furthering of the educational system and the education of those who attend it.
As it stands now the teachers union is a voice based souly state to state that only comes together when a great injustice is done. By creating a new branch of goverment we will give education a strong stand on capital hill and create a more united force for teachers to convene under. With this strong voice education will be able to more effectively lobby for the needed funds and it will be able to effectively create bills that will affect ALL states and make education a national system and not a semi-national system thats truely regulated by the state goverment. Now I'm sure we will hear state officals call foul because now the funds given to them every quarter meant for education will actually go TO education and not some other state based program. But that will pass and only the state officals will make a stink.
*sighs*Somewhere along the line I completely diverted from the point and went off into somewhere else. So getting back to it.
Religous holidays: What I'm suggesting is a fix all. Let the goverment decide school holidays and not religous lobbiests who have the school boards ear.
Public School's, religon and holidays - qweeve - 02-01-2005
foog Wrote:Sinner, let me first say that you're a very intelligent person, and it's really obvious the way that you type and post. i'm proud to be a part of forums that have people like you. while you and i might not share some vital opinions (i'm a christian, and a republican) you're still a great mind. THAT being said, you're completely wrong in any way and you should be beaten into the ground forcefully. HA! just kidding. i think that since christianity, having over a billion members worldwide, and being the biggest and most powerful religion out there, should ahve its holidays off, while islam, which isn't as big, shouldn't. that means that, if they give ramadan off, that i can create a religion, create a holiday, and say that i demand school off for it? in respect for my religion? i think the buck stops here, and only the big dog deserves a day off. THAT being said, i actually am in strong agreement with Sinner's earlier post about the schooling scedule. my mom's a teacher, and i know what it's like, she's in a frenzy most of the year trying to prepare and what not. glad to "argue" with someone like you, sinner.
Not to stray from the point of this thread, but in fact christianity is not the biggest religion in the world. Unless I'm mistaken, Buhdism is, also there are almost a billion hindu's in India alone. Where that leaves christianity, I'm not sure, but surely not number 1. But I'll leave it up to someone who cares more than me to look up the exact numbers. Sorry again for swaying from the theme of this thread.
Public School's, religon and holidays - [/sarcasm] - 02-02-2005
Nope. Christianity is the main religion, with two billion members, although Islam is right behind it with 1.3 billion, and like 800 million Buddhists and 300 million Hinduists. But really, once you think about it, should you really base the school system on religion anyway? The answer, which is hard for some to comprehend, is a flat out NO.
Public School's, religon and holidays - Foog - 02-02-2005
There is (or should be) a strong separation between "church" and "state" (or church and school.) i say that we allow those who are in the religion to practice their religion to an extent, up to missing weeks of school for holidays. that's just ridiculous..
Public School's, religon and holidays - Corona_Time - 02-03-2005
Wow, Foog/Sinner ah all of you posting here, very, very, highly intelligent. One thing you said foog about christianity being "powerful", in what way? Very good thread by the way. I would just have to say when you read this, because I'm conservative (somewhat of a bush supporter, picked what I thought was lesser of the two evils) keep an open mind and you as I have may learn something or broaden your way of thinking.
Public School's, religon and holidays - Foog - 02-03-2005
thanks for the compliment. i meant that christianity was powerful in that it is the world's biggest and most prominent religion, that's all...totally agreeing about the open mind comment, my father is a closed mind guy, going into all arguments with his opinion in mind, and he will not change it, the mofo'. -_-"
Public School's, religon and holidays - SpreadNeedleXP - 02-03-2005
Sinner Wrote:Personally I'm in complete favor of year round schooling. Nine weeks of school two weeks off in a reapeating cycle. If any holiday happens to fall in those two weeks so be it. The holidays that should be observed are those in which the goverment has set aside as holidays. Children should go to school all other days. To me this would help alleviate alot pressure on teachers who have to prepare 18weeks worth of material at a time. With 9 on and 2 off this would allow teachers to integrate new material every 9 weeks and/or delete material in which they feel is not required and so on. Along with year round schooling I'm in favor of 7 class days as opposed to the new rapidly spreading "block" schedueling that is going on. This too has created more problems for teachers as they now have to cram what was 36weeks of material into half the time.
In a revised 36week course with year round schooling with goverment declared holidays observed only I firmly believe that students would learn more and teachers would actually be able to teach and be creative about it. But thats just IMPO.
Amen to that! Too bad I'll graduate way before that happens here.
Public School's, religon and holidays - Silver Ice - 02-15-2005
learn 7 days a week...? me go crazy. bad idea i think. students usually dont wanna learn any materials and only 20%(if that) of it used outside of school. yes christianity is one of the most prominent religions , maybe thats because the bible is in almost every language and the bible is usually free to. getting back to topic i think muslums should be given school holidays off if over half the population in that area is muslum. or use this idea and decide on a cap on giving people holidays or not.
Public School's, religon and holidays - Aemaeth - 02-15-2005
Just leave it as it is. If they need the holidays for their religon, let them have them. They are LEARNING about their heritage in the religion, So its not like their doing anything wrong, PLus, Learning 7 days a week is a bit 3of a bad idea. It could cause pupils to become stressed, In turn Making them Truent/tardy (*not american*).
Public School's, religon and holidays - Crown - 02-15-2005
Yeah, I think if a large enough religion were to ask for a holiday to take a few days off should actually be considered. The school board shouldn't just blow it off. They've already given another religion their days; so why not accept another religion's? I don't think that is exactly fair.
Public School's, religon and holidays - Obfuscate - 02-15-2005
Huh...supporters of equal treatment for all. Well then if we are to give the musslims their days off we need to give all the protestans there days off then the episcalpalians, the Jehova Witnesses, Christian Scientist's, statanist etc etc. Now I'm not a hate monger no sir but I'm a very practical person. So in the interest of practicality I just thought that eliminating ALL religous holidays on a whole would be the most non-bias approach to the subject. Okay so what about those who are not of American decent what about THEIR national holidays? Well I'm sorry to be so rude about it but when you are given a visa and allowed to enter this country and become a citizen of thise country you should be well prepared to leave behind your national traditions. Just as with observing major religous holidays from all religons is impractical its also impractical to obeserve all national holidays of all nationalities.
In the end granting religous or nationality based holidays is just not a practical thing to do. I agree it is the "right" thing to do seeing how we, America, aptly named ourselves the "melting pot of the world". But in the end just simply eliminating the use of religous based holidays and adopting a year round school schedule with nine weeks on and two weeks off, with weekends of courese being saturday and sunday (I do not think I made it clear there would still be weekends). That it would eliminate the problem of mixing religon with school and lift some weight off the already over stressed school year for teachers.
Personally I feel this is the only way to "save" an already failing educational system which is near to forcing parents to resort to home schooling their children. The public school system was by far one of the greatest ideas ever concieved but it has since been ill managed and a complete overall is needed if the future generations are to have any decent amount of education.
On a side note the public school system needs to start teaching children a foriegn language from the start and not starting in late middle school or early highschool.