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Christianity in America - [/sarcasm] - 02-02-2005
Well just recently I've been watching Larry King on CNN, don't really know why it was on that station, but I woke up and they were talking. The main issue was '25 Most Influential Evangelicals in America' and he had a bunch of guests. Anyway, the issue of religion in the school system came up.
One of his guests, with what seems like a lot of support from the rest of the guests, was going on that 'faith' should be integrated into the school system, but Atheism and evolution should take no part in it. I'm not even going to go into the other issues, but Larry King was sort of taken aback by his mention of evolution, and when he asked him why he was against evolution, he simply stated that it is a theory and it isn't proven.
Well is it just me or did he mention faith earlier? Faith means they believe without proof that God exists. So by saying that evolution (which is a science anyway, and has been proven) should not be taught because it isn't proven, shouldn't they avoid Faith for the same exact reason? Is it just me, or are Christians in high positions becoming even more hypocritical than the ones in the streets? I'd like to hear some of your opinions on the issue.
Christianity in America - TroGdoR - 02-02-2005
Evolution is not a scientific law. It is a theory. There are still loopholes in the push to make Evolution take the next leap. I agree with it, however, the great part about America is that you are allowed to go on television and say what you feel. That evangelist was not hurting anybody with his opinion. I don't think you have to worry about his influence, because it won't hurt the public education system's curriculum.
Christianity in America - Nubli - 02-02-2005
TroGdoR Wrote:Evolution is not a scientific law. It is a theory. There are still loopholes in the push to make Evolution take the next leap. I agree with it, however, the great part about America is that you are allowed to go on television and say what you feel. That evangelist was not hurting anybody with his opinion. I don't think you have to worry about his influence, because it won't hurt the public education system's curriculum.
What happens when we get a president worse than Bush who uses faith to do his/her job?
Seriously though, religion is fine, as long as you don't impose it on others. Keep it to yourself, most people don't give a damn. I'm an agnostic so I can't really say either way. Although I am more favored to Evolution just because it has evidence to back it up.
As for evidence to religion: is there any? No. God could have just been somebody made up for story telling. The bible was written by some man. Heck, if society now was like it was back then, I could write the bible over in my own words and it would be accepted.
So when it comes down to it, evolution is about the sciences of time. Science = Subject in school, which also = idea that must be taught. I really think spending an hour each schoolday worshipping some supreme being whom I have doubts about is quite pointless.
Christianity in America - [/sarcasm] - 02-02-2005
I do realize that he will not change the educational curriculum, but if you are in the top 25 most influential anything, people are going to listen to you and it is a little obnoxious to me to think that thousands of other people think the same thing attending his congregations.
Christianity in America - TroGdoR - 02-02-2005
Lol, the fact that those polls taken to find the 25 most influential people definitely scares me more than some evangelist preaching to Larry King's audience. I think you should stop concerning yourself with these titles of "Top this" and "Top that". They mean absolutely nothing in the long run.
Christianity in America - SpreadNeedleXP - 02-03-2005
RtD-Rookie Wrote:Well just recently I've been watching Larry King on CNN, don't really know why it was on that station, but I woke up and they were talking. The main issue was '25 Most Influential Evangelicals in America' and he had a bunch of guests. Anyway, the issue of religion in the school system came up.
One of his guests, with what seems like a lot of support from the rest of the guests, was going on that 'faith' should be integrated into the school system, but Atheism and evolution should take no part in it. I'm not even going to go into the other issues, but Larry King was sort of taken aback by his mention of evolution, and when he asked him why he was against evolution, he simply stated that it is a theory and it isn't proven.
Well is it just me or did he mention faith earlier? Faith means they believe without proof that God exists. So by saying that evolution (which is a science anyway, and has been proven) should not be taught because it isn't proven, shouldn't they avoid Faith for the same exact reason? Is it just me, or are Christians in high positions becoming even more hypocritical than the ones in the streets? I'd like to hear some of your opinions on the issue.
I am a Christian, but I have never been taught anything to do with Faith in school. And to add to that, I've actually been taught evolution (I let it stay in my head for the test then threw it out).
Christianity in America - UberGrossMann - 02-03-2005
i completely agree with your thinking rtd rookie. You're right why should faith be taught when its no more proven than evolution.
I also agree with you nubli on the fact that bush pretty much got elected because he was against gay marriage (sp? doesn't look right). America can have a 50% divorce rate, but can't have gay marriage because marriage is a sacred institution. Right...Gotta love the hypocracy
Christianity in America - tripmonster - 02-03-2005
if people choose to beLIEve in invisble idols just to make they're death that much more accepted then let them. of course there is only one higher power for me... myself.
Christianity in America - Muse - 02-03-2005
i agree with tripmonster, but i also agree with nubli. im not gonna impose my beliefs on religious people as long as they leave me alone.
Christianity in America - TroGdoR - 02-03-2005
Why are people so afraid of religion? It has taken humanity this far...and don't start throwing out the Crusades or religious genocide because I'll just throw Hitler and Stalin right back in your faces.
Christianity in America - Nubli - 02-03-2005
TroGdoR Wrote:Why are people so afraid of religion? It has taken humanity this far...and don't start throwing out the Crusades or religious genocide because I'll just throw Hitler and Stalin right back in your faces.
Yay, history lesson!
Anyways, I myself am not afraid of religion. Just last weekend my grandma (who had cancer) finally died right in front of my eyes (give or take a few minutes.) It was really hard dealing with the fact that we could no longer communicate with her, but some part of me envied her, for she got to experience what happens after death.
I do admit that religion would make this whole situation a lot easier, what with believing that she was going on to a better place, like Heaven. Maybe the envy strayed from that idea. But without physical proof of such a place or such a being as God, I can't fully accept this.
Now I have always been interested in science. It's easy to comprehend how physicists, chemists, biologists, etc. came to their conclusions, and proved them! Since these sorts of things have been proven, it's the reason why I lean towards it.
I feel like Jodie Foster in the movie, Contact.
But one thing that really peeves me off is how some people can think that there is nothing outside of our solar system (or even other planets in our solar system.) It really shows the ignorance of religion.
Christianity in America - TroGdoR - 02-03-2005
I actually learned earlier in one of my classes that religion within the past...I don't know how many years, has embraced the idea that there is a Universe out there created by God. So even though I don't agree with it, hey we may never prove how energy that birthed the universe came into existance. In other words, we may never prove that there isn't a God...
Christianity in America - mrbona2 - 02-03-2005
It's impossible to prove God's existance, because we are always presupposing that he exists. We are trying to prove "what" it is, rather than "that" it is. Basically we are proving from existance rather than towards existance.
Christianity in America - mrbona2 - 02-03-2005
But either way, it is better for one to believe in God's existance than to deny His existance.
Christianity in America - xDBD - 02-03-2005
You most certainly will not prove there is a god, either. Some people claim to die[physically] and have OBEs and meet god, and then get resurrected, and tell the story of meeting god and such.
I can give a medical explination for this. A very real one, at that.
When you die, your body releases a substance called DMT(http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/dmt/dmt.shtml). Your brain is STILL active at this point in death. DMT is a VERY powerful psychedelic drug. The DMT can medically account to those who claim to have visions while temporarially dead. Who is to say the psychedelic caused these visions, though? I am most certainly not this person.
I am very much, like Nubli, an agnostic person. I do not deny, or accept for that matter, anything but FACT. Facts as in, proven beyond a shadow of a doubt. Evolution is great, but is it proven? I mean, how sure can they be? Were they, the people who purposed evolution, ALIVE when we evolved from Monkeys? No, but that is being far'fetched, I know. There is evidence, but it is still very shaky and weak to say the least.
Religion has no physical proof. Faith is arguably all that guides you on religion. Faith is enough for some people, and for some it is not. I am just a part of that stubborn group who refuse to believe what's not proven.
Wait, let me back track, I am agnostic in the sense that I only believe what is shown or proven to me. I have alot of Pagan root, though. I do believe in using etheogenic/hallucinogenic compounds for spiritual discovery. Many pagans believe this, too. I actually agree with alot of the Pagan teachings, as well. It all comes back to Earth and Nature, and I'll agree with that. I dig the idea of Karma, but reincarnation is very farfetched to me.
I do not believe in public(school) teachings of religion, or evolution for that matter.
Religion or Evolution cannot be proven beyond a shadow of a doubt, so I think that they should be made available for private study, but not forced upon anyone. Spirituality should be a choice, not a burdon. TV Christians and such preach their word to those who want to listen, and that is fine by me. Evolution or Christianity in schools is not. Granted, if you sign up for an elective class called "Evolution 101" or "Basic Christianity," that is one thing. Teaching Evolution/Religion in a required science class is another.
I am very open minded, yet at the same time quite closed minded, on this subject.
Edit: Written in direct response to Trog.
Christianity in America - SpreadNeedleXP - 02-03-2005
UberGrossMann Wrote:i completely agree with your thinking rtd rookie. You're right why should faith be taught when its no more proven than evolution.
I also agree with you nubli on the fact that bush pretty much got elected because he was against gay marriage (sp? doesn't look right). America can have a 50% divorce rate, but can't have gay marriage because marriage is a sacred institution. Right...Gotta love the hypocracy
A sacred institution between a man and a woman is what they are saying dude. Not a sacred institution where nothing bad can happen and that they will never split apart.
Christianity in America - xDBD - 02-03-2005
I believe that gay people should have every right straight people should have, HOWEVER...
Marriage in American society is a bond, often a Christian-based bond, between a man and a woman. A man/man or woman/woman relationship is not a "man and a woman," type bond. I think gays should be able to marry any way they want too, but I understand fully where Christians come from when they don't want them to do it under their tags and whatnot. Do I agree with them? Most certainly not.
But I am not everyone else. If more people thought like I did we would be in pretty shitty shape.. lol.
Christianity in America - Nubli - 02-03-2005
SpreadNeedleXP Wrote:A sacred institution between a man and a woman is what they are saying dude. Not a sacred institution where nothing bad can happen and that they will never split apart.
Marriage defined by the Bible is between a man and woman. So by therefore banning same-sex marriage, we are following the Bible. That is not what this country was founded on. We are not Puritans (although our society kept many Puritanical traits, unlike Europe.)
I say, let a man kiss a man and a woman kiss a woman. It's not directly affecting me so why should I worry? Let others do what they want with their life, otherwise they aren't free. Civil rights... something Bush has a hard time grasping.
Besides, the divorce rate in this country is so damned high.
Christianity in America - TroGdoR - 02-04-2005
N u b l i Wrote:Marriage defined by the Bible is between a man and woman. So by therefore banning same-sex marriage, we are following the Bible. That is not what this country was founded on. We are not Puritans (although our society kept many Puritanical traits, unlike Europe.)This country was too founded partly on religion. The Constitution does indeed have religious references in it and our founding fathers were all religious men. The fact that you can't fathom why Christians in our country are in opposition to gay marraiges is another story. I must ask, in a democracy the majority rules. I guarantee you that the majority rules right now in the case against gay marraige.
I say, let a man kiss a man and a woman kiss a woman. It's not directly affecting me so why should I worry? Let others do what they want with their life, otherwise they aren't free. Civil rights... something Bush has a hard time grasping.
Besides, the divorce rate in this country is so damned high.
Christianity in America - tripmonster - 02-04-2005
hahahaha. look. gay and christians do not go hand in hand. the bible doesnt say that gay people are ok because back then only people of upper class actually participated in these 'gross sexual pleasures'
americans are from europe. if your not american (ie; of different nationality; asian, hispanic, black, etc..) your not american. i was born in america, im 22 years old, never left america and still im not an american. nobody is an american. the real americans are indians, and we ****ed that whole thing up didnt we. lol
anyways, i just like feeding into this convesation as much as possible, lol i love debates.