what u think on the war in iraq success or failure

[TroGdoR]

IF we could have, we would have NoShot. But there were many people who, being fanatical Muslim homicidal maniacs, they won't give in without a fight. And unfortunately Bush and the U.S. has been fighting the battle with a hand tied behind their backs. Better than clinton fighting with both hands behind his back while being blindfolded. (see crisis in Somalia)

[Rob]

I would have fully supported this war had we had a legit reason. No WMDs have been found(thanks ALOT inspectors, you shut those assholes up who insist they were there) and Sadaam is GONE. George Dubya was misinformed and he lied to a nation. Hence, this is why I do not support the war he insisted to start. The WTC pissed me off alot, I lost my sister[cousin in actuality] to it. I was very pissed. I realized that our losses does not justify the killing of other people in our name. If George Dubya, or ANYONE for that matter, would even consider coming straight out and admitting that this war is for A) Oil, B) To settle Dubya Senior's conflict, and C) to show the world how big our balls are and gain power.. Until they meet MY standards, whether they are right or wrong, I won't support this war or Bush. Hell, I don't support Kerry, either, but he's got the most ups in my book.

My answer to the question you asked Kellard: Yeah, it's fine and dandy with me. I've experienced the shitty side of America. Shit's not rosy on our own turf, much less Iraq. Fix our problems then i'll worry about how that evil guy treated his own. America is treating its own like dirt. To quote my hip-hop Icon, Sage Francis[the song Slow Down Gandhi, downloadable at epitaph.com]:

"If they could sell sanity in a bottle they'd be charging for compressed air and marketing health care"

[SpoonMan999]

Rob I think hundreds dying in a month is more important than our problems with gangs and such, which if you look at will never truly be gone. We will always have some poverty and crime you can't just get rid of it so what's so wrong with doing something right somewhere else while you still fight at home? I don't think alot of you really understand all this. Honestly what you said Rob just proves how selfish we Americans really are.

[Rob]

So what you're saying is removing Saddam and liberating Iraq is going to remove the hatred of Americans in a select few people? You think killing Iraqis is the solution? Please explain to me why. I must have missed something. It's almost like.. if we kill a select few Iraqis(aka everyone who doesn't go along with a government we're forcing-- whether they want it or not- on them) will really change the fact that terrorism actually exists in Iraq, Iran, still Afghanistan, Saudi Arabia, and truth be known, Israel? No. It will not. As you said, gangs will always be here. People will ALWAYS hate other people. Be it middle-easterns hating Americans or Americans hating this pisspoor country we live in. We use power and weapons to intimidate people. It's bullshit. Look at something like Gay Marriage. I'm straight, but come on. It's perfectly fine for straight people to legally acknowledge they're straight by getting married. Gay people ARE people. Why is it an issue they want to get married? Jesus. How about the 'Drug War' where they claim one hit of Cannabis or MDMA[esctasy] will drop you dead. That's a proven lie, yet they still shove it down children's throats. How about America's stance on alcohol? At 18, it's perfectly fine to go to Iraq and kill you a few foreigners, but it's a sin to come home and drink a few brews with your friends. How about health care? Why don't you research how many people have insurance. Then look up how many don't. Look at the seniors who import meds from Canada-- it's cheap and just as effective as American meds. Yet, they aren't approved, and thus sending seniors down the creek with ungodly amounts of bills. Wonderful, isn't it? Damn right i'm selfish, and i'll admit it. You look after your own before the guy next to you. It's dog-eat-dog, and if you think this nation is any different you're sadly mistaken. Do you honestly believe the Iraqi war was 100% to help Iraqis? Get real man. Do you think this nation is that pure? The people who see the truth in bullshit like this are selfish and greedy Americans. Way to be a stereotype, brother.

[Mr. Fabulous]

I'm just curious because I saw this same damn thing thrown in again about there not being WMD's.
Do you not think that he would have hid those thing's ?Or even sent them out of the country?

[SpoonMan999]

Rob...again you twist my words good job. I never said it would make people like us, that age crap was just out of the blue and sounds more like teenage angst, the insurance thing also out of the blue. It's like you had this really good comment but it turned out too short so you shoveled in stuff to make it look bigger. Oh also no this war wasn't 100% about the Iraqi people I'm sure having a Democratic ally in the Middle East was a nice thought thrown in and probably others we can't even see because we don't know all the fine print that they don't show the public. And everyone is a stereotype or conformist in some way so stop pretending like you're somethin special cause you're probably just as stereotypical as me...or probably more for having that anti stereotype/anti conformist attitude.

[Nethran]

Ok Kellard...So Saddam killing his own people is perfectly fine by you and 1000 giving their lives to save millions is just wrong? I know that's not what you or Rob mean but you both sure as hell sound like that's what you're saying. And Rob the job isn't done until we take out Al Sadr cause as soon as we leave he'll over run Iraq with the terrorist organizations he's got with him and take over and just be a worse Saddam. And also Kellard the oil thing...Michael Moore doesn't even talk about the oil crap anymore I thought we were through that shit and most realized that wasn't the purpose of this war? I dunno maybe you're just a little behind the others or you refuse to accept that.

Ive been out for a while, but I had to reply to this.

:Spoon::
Point 1) Was it our problem? We aren't the world's ****ing police.
Point 2) About 1100 US dead so far. These aren't coalition statistics. Emphasis on the "so far."
Point 3) Almost 30,000 US Casualties. That means people that had to be taken out because of injuries. Some of them won't be able to function like normal people anymore.
Point 4) Over 30,000 Iraqi civilians dead. Yes, we didn't help much, did we?

[Rob]

Rob...again you twist my words good job. I never said it would make people like us, that age crap was just out of the blue and sounds more like teenage angst, the insurance thing also out of the blue. It's like you had this really good comment but it turned out too short so you shoveled in stuff to make it look bigger. Oh also no this war wasn't 100% about the Iraqi people I'm sure having a Democratic ally in the Middle East was a nice thought thrown in and probably others we can't even see because we don't know all the fine print that they don't show the public. And everyone is a stereotype or conformist in some way so stop pretending like you're somethin special cause you're probably just as stereotypical as me...or probably more for having that anti stereotype/anti conformist attitude.

I'm finished with you, and this debate. You're like my mother, it matters not WHAT you say, Bush is still a ****ing saint and i'm wrong no matter what. Good day, mabye tomorrow you'll open up and actually listen.

[SpoonMan999]

I don't recall ever saying Bush is a saint. And Kellard wars have caulties what'd you expect? Also you forget to mention the terrorists have killed the majority of those civilians, with car bombs and such deaths dealt by us were accidental (Believe it or not our soldiers have morals and don't target civilians). And Rob you were twisting my words yet again perhaps you're the one that should listen more? And not assume so many things?

[SpreadNeedleXP]

I honestly think what bush is doing is an awesome thing but i feel instead of just killing terrorist's he should tell all of the people of iraq to get the hell out of there and then BULDOSE citie by city that way there is nothing left but terrorists inside the buildings cause if we see some trying to escape we shoot them. Well that is just an idea i am not saying its perf.

That would'nt work for many reasons. Its not like we can just see a group of Iraqis running and know which ones are terrorists. They could easily get out of the way. PLUS what if WE were in a situation where terrorists started to infest the US? Would you want other countries to tell us to get out of the way and bulldoze our cities? You have to put yourself in their shoes, and I think Bush is doing a great job.

Ive been out for a while, but I had to reply to this.

:Spoon::
Point 1) Was it our problem? We aren't the world's ****ing police.
Point 2) About 1100 US dead so far. These aren't coalition statistics. Emphasis on the "so far."
Point 3) Almost 30,000 US Casualties. That means people that had to be taken out because of injuries. Some of them won't be able to function like normal people anymore.
Point 4) Over 30,000 Iraqi civilians dead. Yes, we didn't help much, did we?

Rebuttles to:

Point 1) I call it "Building a safer tomorrow"
Point 2) I have none... this is true, and it is the cost of war.
Point 3) No, casualties does not mean that they are injured. Casualties means DEAD. A total of 7532, not 30,000 have been injured :confused:
Point 4) US is responsible for 7350 deaths, the rest are done by terrorists...

Peace comes at such a high price

[[Ghost]]

wow the deaths of the us and the deaths by the us is a preaty close number. kellards right we shouldnt be the police of the world. the whole reason were in there is WMDs which there are none that we have found. were fighting a broken cause

[SpoonMan999]

A broken cause? A convincing use of grammar I feel.

And the number of Iraqi's killed by the US and the number of US troops injured is close...a little over 1000 US troops have died which is actually the lowest casulty rate we've ever had in a war.