Ok so this was originally posted in tool's ***** religion poll. (http://www.blizzsector.co/steam-room/286...on-19.html) I posted before I had read the whole thread. Im thinking there is no hope to have an intelligent debate in a thread that had such poorly thought out comments (although some of them were definately intelligent).
-I am irsh and therefore was brought up Catholic
To any christians who have similar beliefs, I have a few questions.... looking specifically for answers to why, and not so much to answer of my sect doesn't do this or that.
1. first of all which religion are you, and if answering questions outside your personal experience, whats your exposure - friends, theology major..... and are you of a christian sect that believes Jews killed Jesus?
2. What happened to the commandment about no idols/craven images, it was the second commandment given to moses, where did it go? and how did the tenth commandment given to moses become two commandments (see my other post for both jewish and catholic commandments - religous racism )
3. PLEASE explain to me the holy trinity, other than its the catholic churches attempt to have Jesus be the son of god without breaking the first (and 'most important' commandment (having one and only one god)
4. why did we change from a loaf of bread to a wafer? Jesus used a loaf of bread (The last supper was a traditional JEWISH shabbot) and why cant we break the bread and drink the wine ourselves, why do we need a priest to do it now.
5. Why didn't the world end when Jesus came to earth?
6. What about all the inconsitancies in the churches stances? the sun revolves around the earth? Creationism? Crucifixtion through the hands - (must have been the wrists - hands are impossible - every cross and picture of jesus crucified or post-crucifixtion are WRONG) at least the catholic church smarted up and took a stance that is virtually impossible to disprove (a page right out of the playbook aka the bible)
7. Why does god hate homosexuals, hate master-bation (why cant I say this word) and have tones of racism and sexism in 'his words'
8. why do we need churches, especially lavish cathedrals that cost vasts amounts of money?
9. If god is 'perfect' why does he not let the starving child in ethiopa, in some remote village that missionary work never penetrated into - into heaven? same question for the child who would have been my uncle but died as an infant before he was baptised? also other chirstian religions, and jewish and muslim... is their faith so wrong that they are banished to hell.... could thing the christians came along and corrected 350,000 years of 'not knowing any better. what about animals? I recentely got my very first dog in SEpt. and that puppy has more emotions and is more 'human'. Sure she has the intelligence of a 2 yr old child or a auestro lopithicus (sp?), but Its clear she expresses: fear, happiness, sadness, remorse, desire for companionship, if she scratches me and I say oww! she comes over to give me kisses... she isn't good enough for heaven?
10. Why do we pray to saints? I thought you should only pray to god, saints were just people, humans, why should they be prayed to?
11. why is god always portrayed with human form and is male? with such great power why not something of more of a force of nature or a ball of energy?
12. I think that the theory of gravity is just a myth... Its actually unmeasureable phlogistan that keeps everything 'glued' together... you cant dissprove the existance of soemthing unmeasurable so we should all believe this.
13. why cant you have sex before marriage? why cant condoms be distributed in Africa to keep the deaths from STDs to a minimum? Is this the word of god, or some sexually repressed and probably homophobic (because of homosexual desires he wished to keep repressed) man(men) from 2000 years ago? What kind of lvl of intimacy can you have with a person if you haven't ever really kissed then - yet you should pledge your life to them?
14. the 3rd/4th commandment - Keep holy the Sabbath - It used to be Saturday, Moses held it on saturday, Jesus held it on saturday - why do Catholics have it on Sunday?? Our we breaking a commandment by keeping holy Sunday and not saturday now? Is this just another frail attempt to seperate themselves from their jewish cousins?
______________________
WE have no copy of the ORIGINAL bible, just what was copied from copies of copies (and guess who was making these copies - prolly some monk who dedicated his life to the book - wouldn't hurt to touch things up a little to help save those non-believers.) There may well be a God, and we may possibly be worshipping him as he wishes, and living life as he would prefer us to, but religion wraps this up in cloak of additional 'stories' to seperate itself from other religions and further there own personal gains. Why should we hang on their every word when we dont know which word is theirs and which is the word of god himself. Is God going to punish us for not picking the correct religion, with the correct version, and believing only the correct parts within that religion. How have people taken religion to far you ask??
Lets look at the Orthodox Jewish religon (and stop picking on catholics for a minute). **"God created the world in 6 days and on the 7th he rested' -- lets just say for argument sake this is true. Now their are some people that believe that they should do this too and do no work on the seventh day of the week (saturday). In fact they want to be so sure that they dont break this rule that they wont:
1. carry an umbrella when it rains - cause carrying anything is work
2. drive a car/bus/bike anywhere
3. clean house, shower, cook dinner
4. turn on lights - this is the modern equivalent to making fire and making fire was always considered work
Beleieve this list goes on and on and some of the more extreme sects go so far as pre-ripping toilet paper, cause the act of ripping toilet paper is work and therefore must be preformed on a work day not the sabbath
**"you shall not cook a lamb in its mothers milk" - granted this sounds a little screwed up, but lets face it - once people stopped living on a farm with one sheep and her lambs this match will never be made. Cookin lamb in cow milk seems less severe or even a beef in another cows milk. Whats orthodox do to make sure they NEVER break this rule
1. Never have meat and milk in the same meal - just to be sure there is no cookin/mixing of the two. This includes a glass of milk with meat, cheese on your cheeseburger, cream sauce on your pasta with meat/chicken.
2. Use seperate dishes/silverware/pots for meat meals and milk meals - just to make sure there is no crumbs of the previous meal to mix
3. Restaurants are segrgated to either be meat or dairy restuarants - never both
and again this is just the tip of rules
these are just a few examples of how something that may have been the word of God to start was taken WAY to far by people over many many generations. Rules were still being added thousand years later. Ok I need to do work.... more later perhaps
-I am irsh and therefore was brought up Catholic
To any christians who have similar beliefs, I have a few questions.... looking specifically for answers to why, and not so much to answer of my sect doesn't do this or that.
1. first of all which religion are you, and if answering questions outside your personal experience, whats your exposure - friends, theology major..... and are you of a christian sect that believes Jews killed Jesus?
2. What happened to the commandment about no idols/craven images, it was the second commandment given to moses, where did it go? and how did the tenth commandment given to moses become two commandments (see my other post for both jewish and catholic commandments - religous racism )
3. PLEASE explain to me the holy trinity, other than its the catholic churches attempt to have Jesus be the son of god without breaking the first (and 'most important' commandment (having one and only one god)
4. why did we change from a loaf of bread to a wafer? Jesus used a loaf of bread (The last supper was a traditional JEWISH shabbot) and why cant we break the bread and drink the wine ourselves, why do we need a priest to do it now.
5. Why didn't the world end when Jesus came to earth?
6. What about all the inconsitancies in the churches stances? the sun revolves around the earth? Creationism? Crucifixtion through the hands - (must have been the wrists - hands are impossible - every cross and picture of jesus crucified or post-crucifixtion are WRONG) at least the catholic church smarted up and took a stance that is virtually impossible to disprove (a page right out of the playbook aka the bible)
7. Why does god hate homosexuals, hate master-bation (why cant I say this word) and have tones of racism and sexism in 'his words'
8. why do we need churches, especially lavish cathedrals that cost vasts amounts of money?
9. If god is 'perfect' why does he not let the starving child in ethiopa, in some remote village that missionary work never penetrated into - into heaven? same question for the child who would have been my uncle but died as an infant before he was baptised? also other chirstian religions, and jewish and muslim... is their faith so wrong that they are banished to hell.... could thing the christians came along and corrected 350,000 years of 'not knowing any better. what about animals? I recentely got my very first dog in SEpt. and that puppy has more emotions and is more 'human'. Sure she has the intelligence of a 2 yr old child or a auestro lopithicus (sp?), but Its clear she expresses: fear, happiness, sadness, remorse, desire for companionship, if she scratches me and I say oww! she comes over to give me kisses... she isn't good enough for heaven?
10. Why do we pray to saints? I thought you should only pray to god, saints were just people, humans, why should they be prayed to?
11. why is god always portrayed with human form and is male? with such great power why not something of more of a force of nature or a ball of energy?
12. I think that the theory of gravity is just a myth... Its actually unmeasureable phlogistan that keeps everything 'glued' together... you cant dissprove the existance of soemthing unmeasurable so we should all believe this.
13. why cant you have sex before marriage? why cant condoms be distributed in Africa to keep the deaths from STDs to a minimum? Is this the word of god, or some sexually repressed and probably homophobic (because of homosexual desires he wished to keep repressed) man(men) from 2000 years ago? What kind of lvl of intimacy can you have with a person if you haven't ever really kissed then - yet you should pledge your life to them?
14. the 3rd/4th commandment - Keep holy the Sabbath - It used to be Saturday, Moses held it on saturday, Jesus held it on saturday - why do Catholics have it on Sunday?? Our we breaking a commandment by keeping holy Sunday and not saturday now? Is this just another frail attempt to seperate themselves from their jewish cousins?
______________________
WE have no copy of the ORIGINAL bible, just what was copied from copies of copies (and guess who was making these copies - prolly some monk who dedicated his life to the book - wouldn't hurt to touch things up a little to help save those non-believers.) There may well be a God, and we may possibly be worshipping him as he wishes, and living life as he would prefer us to, but religion wraps this up in cloak of additional 'stories' to seperate itself from other religions and further there own personal gains. Why should we hang on their every word when we dont know which word is theirs and which is the word of god himself. Is God going to punish us for not picking the correct religion, with the correct version, and believing only the correct parts within that religion. How have people taken religion to far you ask??
Lets look at the Orthodox Jewish religon (and stop picking on catholics for a minute). **"God created the world in 6 days and on the 7th he rested' -- lets just say for argument sake this is true. Now their are some people that believe that they should do this too and do no work on the seventh day of the week (saturday). In fact they want to be so sure that they dont break this rule that they wont:
1. carry an umbrella when it rains - cause carrying anything is work
2. drive a car/bus/bike anywhere
3. clean house, shower, cook dinner
4. turn on lights - this is the modern equivalent to making fire and making fire was always considered work
Beleieve this list goes on and on and some of the more extreme sects go so far as pre-ripping toilet paper, cause the act of ripping toilet paper is work and therefore must be preformed on a work day not the sabbath
**"you shall not cook a lamb in its mothers milk" - granted this sounds a little screwed up, but lets face it - once people stopped living on a farm with one sheep and her lambs this match will never be made. Cookin lamb in cow milk seems less severe or even a beef in another cows milk. Whats orthodox do to make sure they NEVER break this rule
1. Never have meat and milk in the same meal - just to be sure there is no cookin/mixing of the two. This includes a glass of milk with meat, cheese on your cheeseburger, cream sauce on your pasta with meat/chicken.
2. Use seperate dishes/silverware/pots for meat meals and milk meals - just to make sure there is no crumbs of the previous meal to mix
3. Restaurants are segrgated to either be meat or dairy restuarants - never both
and again this is just the tip of rules
these are just a few examples of how something that may have been the word of God to start was taken WAY to far by people over many many generations. Rules were still being added thousand years later. Ok I need to do work.... more later perhaps