What hit the Pentagon?

[Fuggle]

i just think it is a diservice to all of the people who died on the plane

I think that pic Venom posted was the biggest diservice to everyone on who died on that day.

[Venom]

i could say something but i know that you guys would hunt me down and kill me if i did
first off when you hit water (even a bullet) will shatter, on land there have been many cases of bodies found in a plane crash also about the water crash it likely that the bodies sank or got carried in a current

no matter what there would still be traces of a human after a chash either a char'd arm that flew away or a half burned bone but the materials from the plane would have been scattered about but there was little to none
i dont care if it was at 500 mph the metal can't just go and vanish just like that and ammount that was collected was minimal

[Metalhead Steve]

so your saying that no one died.. that no one was killed in the plane apart from the pilots when it hit the pentagon.. to better explain why there may have been no "remains" look at the plane crashes in water (cant remember one off the top of my head) they could find no remains at all. the planes literally shattered into hundreds of peices and there were no bodies. the same thing happened at the pentagon. when something traveling at that velocity collides with something.. there will be barely any debris, not to mention bodies left. there was was a full report done on all of these crashes by the 9/11 Commission

Sorry buddy I hate to tell you that the metals they make a plane with are made from elements. It is a scientific fact that things don't just disentigrate, and when I say this I'm referring to the law that energy is recycled. Energy is never lost, You can't "destroy" an element, you can turn it into a compound but you can't break anything down farther than an element. You can't just tell me hundreds of tons of metal just "disentigrated" so shut your ****ing mouth retard. There would have been scrap metal there, seat cushions or something, not just a hole in the wall with hardly any remains. And the tarped box they carried away, that just looks even worse on the gov'ts part.

I just don't get how some of you are so eager to believe what the government tells you... Why do you trust them? Because they're your leaders? Does being elected into office make you responsible? Deception exists guys wake up and welcome home.

[A.D.]

Elements aren't the smallest bits of matter. Educate yourself.

Read this. http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/...27842.html

To investigate 16 of the most prevalent claims made by conspiracy theorists, POPULAR MECHANICS assembled a team of nine researchers and reporters who, together with PM editors, consulted more than 70 professionals in fields that form the core content of this magazine, including aviation, engineering and the military.
In the end, we were able to debunk each of these assertions with hard evidence and a healthy dose of common sense. We learned that a few theories are based on something as innocent as a reporting error on that chaotic day. Others are the byproducts of cynical imaginations that aim to inject suspicion and animosity into public debate. Only by confronting such poisonous claims with irrefutable facts can we understand what really happened on a day that is forever seared into world history.--THE EDITORS

I'd much rather believe what the government tells me then what some video on the internet. You act like the are incapable of fabricating anything.

[The Mob]

owned... LOL
thanks
i agree with you metalhead that the gov should not be trusted all the time. in fact their approval rating has gone down since the war in iraq. but still, i would much rather trust them; the 9/11 commission, popular mechanics (thx almostdeadly), and other official researchers rather than a video on the net. i applaud them (the video) for giving all of us a different view on things

Additional Comment:
oh and venom, please say what you were going to say... we arent going to hunt you down, lol

Additional Comment:
also, disentigration doesnt mean that the element or matter is wiped off the universe. we all know that that cant happen. i was using the word in another context

[A.D.]

NP mob.

A very informative article, addresses everything in a professional way.

I'm not trying to be a **** here Metal, just read all seven pages of it and tell me you still feel 100% the same way.

[Venom]

well it will sound ****ing cold hearted but
there dead live with it....*yes yes i kno its lame ,so live with it *
( i was gonna add more but just didnt seem to work out )
but still there wasn't enough debris to even confirm that it was a 757 and the parts found did not relate to the plane (most of them i think?)

edit
im rly starting to bs myself lately in ym posts ...
edit agian
ohh yes PHEAR my cold heartedness!!!!

[The Mob]

meh, your right.....
oh man, if other people take that into offense..

[A.D.]

but still there wasn't enough debris to even confirm that it was a 757 and the parts found did not relate to the plane (most of them i think?)

Yes there was.

You didn't read...

[Venom]

Yes there was.

You didn't read...

what didnt i read?

[Tap]

ya im going to hunt you down lol. Also if the fire from the fuels of the planes in the world trade towers could burn so hot that it destroyed the enternal framework or steel of the buildings then i see no reason that it couldnt totaly destroy any evidence

[The Mob]

execellent point about the fire Tap

[Venom]

ok then tap if the fire could remove any evidence then why is there?

the WTC were build to resist fire and explosions

it was bombed b4 and there was no problems other buildings even older ones that have survived a fire for over an hour and did not collapse


why was the WTC an excption of this time frame?

also about the plane losing its wing on impact with the pentagon is stupid when they collided with the WTC there were winged sized holes created when the planes hit

[Tap]

the WTC were build to resist fire and explosions

it was bombed b4 and there was no problems other buildings even older ones that have survived a fire for over an hour and did not collapse


why was the WTC an excption of this time frame?

Ya the towers were built to withstand a fire of say a Trashcan erupting in flames and burning a small section of the floor. But in there wildest dreams do you think they were prepared for 10,000 gallons of jet fuel to ignite the "1 acre" floor at the same time? a fire of around 1200 degrees Fahrenheit could easily reduce the steel of the strength by about 50% now imagine that accross a 1 acre floor. (also check out this little report about the wtc - http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,635198488,00.html) im not sure how factual that report is

[A.D.]

Venom; this link http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/...27842.html

Seriously, it addresses 90% of what we are bsing about, but i'll just cut through the fat...

The alleged bombs inside the WTC...

The NIST investigation revealed that plane debris sliced through the utility shafts at the North Tower's core, creating a conduit for burning jet fuel--and fiery destruction throughout the building. "It's very hard to document where the fuel went," says Forman Williams, a NIST adviser and a combustion expert, "but if it's atomized and combustible and gets to an ignition source, it'll go off."
Burning fuel traveling down the elevator shafts would have disrupted the elevator systems and caused extensive damage to the lobbies. NIST heard first-person testimony that "some elevators slammed right down" to the ground floor. "The doors cracked open on the lobby floor and flames came out and people died," says James Quintiere, an engineering professor at the University of Maryland and a NIST adviser. A similar observation was made in the French documentary "9/11," by Jules and Gedeon Naudet. As Jules Naudet entered the North Tower lobby, minutes after the first aircraft struck, he saw victims on fire, a scene he found too horrific to film.

For alleged debris ejected by bombs as it collapsed...

Like all office buildings, the WTC towers contained a huge volume of air. As they pancaked, all that air--along with the concrete and other debris pulverized by the force of the collapse--was ejected with enormous energy. "When you have a significant portion of a floor collapsing, it's going to shoot air and concrete dust out the window," NIST lead investigator Shyam Sunder tells PM. Those clouds of dust may create the impression of a controlled demolition, Sunder adds, "but it is the floor pancaking that leads to that perception."

Why the tower's fell :

Jet fuel burns at 800° to 1500°F, not hot enough to melt steel (2750°F). However, experts agree that for the towers to collapse, their steel frames didn't need to melt, they just had to lose some of their structural strength--and that required exposure to much less heat. "I have never seen melted steel in a building fire," says retired New York deputy fire chief Vincent Dunn, author of The Collapse Of Burning Buildings: A Guide To Fireground Safety. "But I've seen a lot of twisted, warped, bent and sagging steel. What happens is that the steel tries to expand at both ends, but when it can no longer expand, it sags and the surrounding concrete cracks."
"Steel loses about 50 percent of its strength at 1100°F," notes senior engineer Farid Alfawak-hiri of the American Institute of Steel Construction. "And at 1800° it is probably at less than 10 percent." NIST also believes that a great deal of the spray-on fireproofing insulation was likely knocked off the steel beams that were in the path of the crashing jets, leaving the metal more vulnerable to the heat.
But jet fuel wasn't the only thing burning, notes Forman Williams, a professor of engineering at the University of California, San Diego, and one of seven structural engineers and fire experts that PM consulted. He says that while the jet fuel was the catalyst for the WTC fires, the resulting inferno was intensified by the combustible material inside the buildings, including rugs, curtains, furniture and paper. NIST reports that pockets of fire hit 1832°F.
"The jet fuel was the ignition source," Williams tells PM. "It burned for maybe 10 minutes, and [the towers] were still standing in 10 minutes. It was the rest of the stuff burning afterward that was responsible for the heat transfer that eventually brought them down."

About the Pentagon...

When American Airlines Flight 77 hit the Pentagon's exterior wall, Ring E, it created a hole approximately 75 ft. wide, according to the ASCE Pentagon Building Performance Report. The exterior facade collapsed about 20 minutes after impact, but ASCE based its measurements of the original hole on the number of first-floor support columns that were destroyed or damaged. Computer simulations confirmed the findings.
Why wasn't the hole as wide as a 757's 124-ft.-10-in. wingspan? A crashing jet doesn't punch a cartoon-like outline of itself into a reinforced concrete building, says ASCE team member Mete Sozen, a professor of structural engineering at Purdue University. In this case, one wing hit the ground; the other was sheared off by the force of the impact with the Pentagon's load-bearing columns, explains Sozen, who specializes in the behavior of concrete buildings. What was left of the plane flowed into the structure in a state closer to a liquid than a solid mass. "If you expected the entire wing to cut into the building," Sozen tells PM, "it didn't happen."
The tidy hole in Ring C was 12 ft. wide--not 16 ft. ASCE concludes it was made by the jet's landing gear, not by the fuselage.

http://media.popularmechanics.com/images...001-sm.jpg
http://media.popularmechanics.com/images...gon-SM.jpg
http://media.popularmechanics.com/images...t77-sm.jpg

[QUOTE]Blast expert Allyn E. Kilsheimer was the first structural engineer to arrive at the Pentagon after the crash and helped coordinate the emergency response. "It was absolutely a plane, and I'll tell you why," says Kilsheimer, CEO of KCE Structural Engineers PC, Washington, D.C. "I saw the marks of the plane wing on the face of the building. I picked up parts of the plane with the airline markings on them. I held in my hand the tail section of the plane, and I found the black box." Kilsheimer's eyewitness account is backed up by photos of plane wreckage inside and outside the building. Kilsheimer adds: "I held parts of uniforms from crew members in my hands, including body parts. Okay?"[/QUOTE]

[The Mob]

that last post says it all
nice work almostdeadly

[Metalhead Steve]

What you've said still doesn't convince me just because of the WAY it collapsed. The top would have fell to the side it wouldnt have just fell down on itself. And its a pretty damned big coincidence they both collapsed.

And I just want to say something to all the people who think this is disrespect...
If someone killed your mother, father, brother, or sister would you want the murder investigated? Yes, I'm pretty god damned sure you would, so don't sit here and tell me and all these other people that looking into the reason these people died is disrespect. It is the same thing as a detective going out and looking for a murderer and I'm sure you would want that. So just shut your mouths if thats what you think because obviously you are a moron.

I'm going to do research on something I thought of last night and I will be making a thread about it soon. Something that I believe is very plausible but I may be wrong, if I am there will be no thread, but if my hypothesis is correct I believe it should be known.

[Venom]

http://media.popularmechanics.com/im...911_001-sm.jpg
where in this image of the wing scraping the ground??!?
http://media.popularmechanics.com/im...entagon-SM.jpg
not sure where was exactly is....

this is starting to turn into anyther im right your wrong, no im right and your wrong threads

[The Mob]

ya, unfortunatly it is. can we come to a compromise and say that there is no right or wrong answer??

[Fuggle]

Lol there should have been a compromise in the beginning, but nobody will drop the arguement, the only person here who actually has evidence to back himself up is Almost Deadly, Themob has the same views as Deadly but doesn't have any Evidence and multiple quotes to back himself up. Venom is just hindering Metalheads arguement lol.