McCain or Obama?

[BlindMansTicket]

That's just ignorant, the only things they really agree on is off shore drilling, staying in Iraq, and keeping the tax cuts. Obama plans to raise taxes about 25%...how is that going to help the people struggling? And if he creates new taxes for oil companies that's only going to make prices go up faster, especially since he doesn't support domestic drilling.

I'm right. You know this, I know this. We all knew this when the US Government, under cooperation with Israeli interests, bombed the WTC and essentially started a 50 year genocide of the Arab people.

If we vote Obama, the 7 long years of the downward spiral we're in will start to straighten out. It'll still be a downward fall but we will no longer be spinning. Ahh who am I kidding. It's all fixed anyway. McCain will win.

If you're going to vote for McCain, at least hold off judgment until you see who he chooses for VP. That old ****er will just die of combined massive stroke and heart failure the moment Fox News announces him the next President. Or you could vote for Bobb Bar, LOL.

/thread

[Fuggle]

He's offering incentives, like large sums of money, to people/companies that can develop more efficient batteries and other sources of energy. On challenge I heard was a battery for an electric car that could go 100 miles before needing to recharge.

There's an electric car that goes 250 or so miles before recharge, and it does 0-60 in 3.9 I believe. And then the 150 mpg sports looking hybrid that I saw.

Ah found the electric one. Tesla Roadster - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia my stepdad's boss drives one.

[SpoonMan999]

There's an electric car that goes 250 or so miles before recharge, and it does 0-60 in 3.9 I believe. And then the 150 mpg sports looking hybrid that I saw.

Ah found the electric one. Tesla Roadster - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia my stepdad's boss drives one.

I've seen that car but right now, from what I understand, it's rediculously expensive. He's trying to bring out new technology that everyone can afford.

[QUOTEBlindMansTicket]I'm right. You know this, I know this. We all knew this when the US Government, under cooperation with Israeli interests, bombed the WTC and essentially started a 50 year genocide of the Arab people.

If we vote Obama, the 7 long years of the downward spiral we're in will start to straighten out. It'll still be a downward fall but we will no longer be spinning. Ahh who am I kidding. It's all fixed anyway. McCain will win.

If you're going to vote for McCain, at least hold off judgment until you see who he chooses for VP. That old ****er will just die of combined massive stroke and heart failure the moment Fox News announces him the next President. Or you could vote for Bobb Bar, LOL.

/thread [/QUOTE]

I want to have a REAL debate, which means no conspiracy theory bull shit.

[Fuggle]

Ooh I got another vote. SUCCESS

And on a side note, that new 150mpg car coming out costs 11k. I think that's affordable enough. The Tesla Roadster is like 100k though lol

[RaZzor]

Fuggle.

[Fuggle]

lol, I've made it to McCain's level, soon to pass Obama. Fuggle for President '08!

[BewarethePhoenix]

Good show! Fuggle is staying in the race!

[Obfuscate]

McCain if only because Obama smells of socialism with his health care plan.

/end before insurance rant

[SpoonMan999]

McCain if only because Obama smells of socialism with his health care plan.

/end before insurance rant

THANK YOU. Universal health care is dumb...

[Phallock]

OK, where do I get me "FUGGLE '08" bumper sticker. 3rd parties rock this election!

[logic.]

what do you guys think about the recent eavesdropping bill and the fact obama voted for it

[Fuggle]

Gonna pass Obama soon!

[SpoonMan999]

I hate you all.

[erizoe]

Oh man, I wish there was a way all three of them could win =(


If Barack O-motha****in-Obama wins: America gets a young president. We'll definitely see the economy fall FASTER THAN a lead balloon. Ideally he'll realize how corrupted everything is and due to his youth will be inspired to change things in the white house.

If McCain wins: America gets someone old enough to have been in the middle of his Career when Barry Goldwater retired. We'll definitely see even more military spending. Ideally, he'll straight talk lots of corruption out of Washington D.C.

In reality, if either of them win we'll see "more of the same" in the middle east, and more of the same economically, America will continue to be run as a business, not lead like a nation.


And Spoonman, this is just to make you happy devilish:, if there was a gun to my head and I had to pick one, it'd be McCain

John F. Kennedy was the youngest president of the United States and now Obama is the second youngest. Lets hope he does just as good of a job.

Kennedy was killed before he even got to end Vietnam, talk about useless.

[SpoonMan999]

Oh man, I wish there was a way all three of them could win =(


If Barack O-motha****in-Obama wins: America gets a young president. We'll definitely see the economy fall FASTER THAN a lead balloon. Ideally he'll realize how corrupted everything is and due to his youth will be inspired to change things in the white house.

If McCain wins: America gets someone old enough to have been in the middle of his Career when Barry Goldwater retired. We'll definitely see even more military spending. Ideally, he'll straight talk lots of corruption out of Washington D.C.

In reality, if either of them win we'll see "more of the same" in the middle east, and more of the same economically, America will continue to be run as a business, not lead like a nation.


And Spoonman, this is just to make you happy devilish:, if there was a gun to my head and I had to pick one, it'd be McCain


Kennedy was killed before he even got to end Vietnam, talk about useless.

I think Kennedy is very overrated, he's only remembered so well because he died before most of his policies could really get put into play. Let's not forget the Cuban missile crisis and the Bay of Pigs...there was a lot of bad that Kennedy did that gets over looked because he was killed.

[Determinado]

Oh come on, cutting taxes isn't the way you go through an economic crysis...
You need to create a way more interesting climate for businesses to operate in, and it has nothing to do with money, but only with the Federal Reserve. They just keep happyprinting money, decreasing the value of the dollar over and over again.

But a dollar with low value isn't neccesarily a sign of bad economic situation, nor is a high value a sign of good economics. Stability is more important.

Anyways, I don't know what exactly the economic program of both is, but cutting taxes is definately wrong. The US doesn't have insanely high taxes, but it spends the money they get from it completely wrong. War boosts economy, that's true, but it does increase state debt by insane amounts!

I'd vote for Obama, because if his progressive thought about abortion and gay marriage reflect his overall progressiveness, he's what the US needs on several subjects.

If you are against abortion you are a SELFISH, IGNORANT and EVIL person.
Anyone wants to argue with that, I don't think so. McCain is against abortion, which really just puts him on my list of people who are completely ****ed up.

THANK YOU. Universal health care is dumb...

Universal healthcare is a neccesity in a modern state. There's no need to tell people in a wheelchair to sit home all day, but there is a definate need to invest in them so they can still add value to the economy and society.

If there is no backbone you can rely on, you can never rely on your income to be there the next month, so you can't invest, plan and stuff, and you'd rather keep looking for other jobs constantly. Meaning you can never reach full potential in whatever job you're in.

I'm sure there's a lot of people who are poor because of certain diseases, accidents and illnesses. Just take multiplusclerose, it hit a neighbour of me like 20 years ago, his wife had to invest so much in special equipment, and invest so much time in it she was completely ruined by the time he died about 15 years later. And as in virtually all developed states we do have universal healthcare here in Belgium. The thing is, the costs of additional equipment weren't covered by this healthcare, which is really something society should be ashamed of!

[SpoonMan999]

I'm gonna have fun with this one..

Oh come on, cutting taxes isn't the way you go through an economic crysis...
You need to create a way more interesting climate for businesses to operate in, and it has nothing to do with money, but only with the Federal Reserve. They just keep happyprinting money, decreasing the value of the dollar over and over again.

But a dollar with low value isn't neccesarily a sign of bad economic situation, nor is a high value a sign of good economics. Stability is more important.

The value of the dollar is important on the world market. When the value of our dollar goes down the price of goods goes up.

Anyways, I don't know what exactly the economic program of both is, but cutting taxes is definately wrong. The US doesn't have insanely high taxes, but it spends the money they get from it completely wrong. War boosts economy, that's true, but it does increase state debt by insane amounts!

I love when someone flat out admits they don't know the candidates running platform and they're voting for them anyway.

McCain is cutting taxes which will promote more companies doing work INSIDE the US instead of over seas. He's going to decrease the debt by cutting spending on a lot of the useless shit you mention.

I'd vote for Obama, because if his progressive thought about abortion and gay marriage reflect his overall progressiveness, he's what the US needs on several subjects.

Yeah, making our country a safe haven for illegal immigrants is real progressive. McCain is doing it too but both candidates suck over all.

If you are against abortion you are a SELFISH, IGNORANT and EVIL person.
Anyone wants to argue with that, I don't think so. McCain is against abortion, which really just puts him on my list of people who are completely ****ed up.

First off I'm pro-choice and I support gay rights...but how is someone evil for opposing abortion? Are you ****ing retarded? They oppose it because they want to save the life of an unborn child...How is that evil?

Universal healthcare is a neccesity in a modern state. There's no need to tell people in a wheelchair to sit home all day, but there is a definate need to invest in them so they can still add value to the economy and society.

If there is no backbone you can rely on, you can never rely on your income to be there the next month, so you can't invest, plan and stuff, and you'd rather keep looking for other jobs constantly. Meaning you can never reach full potential in whatever job you're in.

I'm sure there's a lot of people who are poor because of certain diseases, accidents and illnesses. Just take multiplusclerose, it hit a neighbour of me like 20 years ago, his wife had to invest so much in special equipment, and invest so much time in it she was completely ruined by the time he died about 15 years later. And as in virtually all developed states we do have universal healthcare here in Belgium. The thing is, the costs of additional equipment weren't covered by this healthcare, which is really something society should be ashamed of!

Universal health care discourages competitiveness, why? Because now the pharmaceutical companies and doctors have no reason to work hard...they're gonna make the same amount of money no matter how hard they work. The advancements in medical technology will almost come to a complete halt.

Not to mention, I work hard for my money and I worked hard to get a job that offers benefits and it is simply wrong to ask me to pay John's knee surgery in New York.

[Determinado]

I'm gonna have fun with this one..

Thanks I love discussion and for some reason I always have the opposite opinion of people xD

The value of the dollar is important on the world market. When the value of our dollar goes down the price of goods goes up.

Wether the value of the dollar is high or low, it doesn't really matter. What does matter is if it's stable or not, and the governance of the Fed has been wrong or decades. They just keep printing money, and if the value of the dollar goes down, guess what they'll do? Print some more money!

I love when someone flat out admits they don't know the candidates running platform and they're voting for them anyway.

On this forum yet I vote for one, but since I'm not American, of course I won't take part in the voting for the elections ;-)
Hence why I know little about their programs, if it were Belgian elections I'd know more about the programs. Belgium has also a lot more parties (10+).

McCain is cutting taxes which will promote more companies doing work INSIDE the US instead of over seas. He's going to decrease the debt by cutting spending on a lot of the useless shit you mention.

The US is known to cheat at international trade, they are about the opposite of freetrade. Basicly meaning quite some exporting companies are overvalued, and would see a quick dead without governmental help. They have been taking part a big deal in protectionism, meaning that money that could go to healthcare or education is being used for companies that aren't strong enough to survive. Nor does it stimulate international relations, which is really reaching a critical stage...

Yeah, making our country a safe haven for illegal immigrants is real progressive. McCain is doing it too but both candidates suck over all.

A nice graph about this can be found when searching age structure USA in google (can't post links argh)
The babyboomers are aging and to support more older people, we need more young people that work to support them. Although this problems is propably not as dramatic in the USA, it is still a problem which can be solved by selective immigration. Simply opening the borders for everyone isn't going to do the trick, selective immigration is a great benefit however which is used in Canada for example.

First off I'm pro-choice and I support gay rights...but how is someone evil for opposing abortion? Are you ****ing retarded? They oppose it because they want to save the life of an unborn child...How is that evil?

Example: Retarded unborn child.
Abortion is possible at last 13 weeks after conception.
Are you going to tell me that you make anyone happy with simply FORCING these people to bring a child to earth that simply has no chance for a happy life?
Sure, as long as the parents live they can devote their ENTIRE LIFE to it, which is obviously a SERIOUS devotion which destroys their entire life, not only because they constantly need to take care of the child but also because the child cannot return happiness as much as other childs can. They constantly have problems, they aren't happy when other childs are happy, and they grow and become even harder to take care of because you can't simply handle them anymore.
And then the parents die of old age, a certainty.
Now tell me, what is left for this retarded child? Nothing at all, who is going to take care of this child? Not you because you're not going to pay for retarded John in New-York, are you?

Bringing a child to earth that has no chance for a happy life is selfish. Call it murder, well at the moment my grandfather is lying in the hospital after a cerebral hemmorrhage, stacked with a lung infection, kidney failure and diabetis he already had. We wish he could just get Euthanasia but NO law does not allow it because he hasn't put up the neccesary papers for it...

What life is going to be for him *if* he gets through?
1) Left side entirely paralysed -> Wheelchair, will need help to get dressed, use the bathroom, eat, etc
2) These functions maybe dropped as well: Hunger, thirst, emotion, sex drive
3) At least 3 times a week dialysis for his kidneys, obviously he will never be able to get a new kidney because he's 76.
4) At max 1 year to live

Are you going to tell me it's worth breaking the entire family emotionally to really add some years of suffering to his life, just because it's cruel to let him die in peace? Seriously, it's selfish.

If you talk about life you should really talk about a life worth living. You can save the soul of an unborn child by doing abortion in situations like:
1) Underaged parents; it will destroy the parents life + the baby will propably live in poverty (A friend actually had a baby at only 16 years old, SHE wanted it, sure she thinks it's fun to have a baby, but did she ever think about how it would be for the baby? She stopped school to take care of the baby, her parents run a café where no one goes, and her boyfriend works in a factory)
2) Diseases that destroy the life of the baby + parents: Retartedness at certain levels (I'm sure some retard can really live a moderately good life), babies with a certain lifespan that is low (hard to decide what is low), will make the parents break down when they hear it, be happy with the baby as long as they have it and then break down entirely when it dies.
3) Serious physical handicaps like cojoined twins that will lead to certain dead or an unhappy life

Universal health care discourages competitiveness, why? Because now the pharmaceutical companies and doctors have no reason to work hard...they're gonna make the same amount of money no matter how hard they work.

I have no clue how that means every doctor earns the same amount of money really. In Belgium we have a very advanced universal healthcare but that means in no way doctors have a limit on their income. If you think doctors that do the same but are worse are for the poor and doctors who do their job extraordinary well are for the rich, perhaps the middleages is the objective.

Not to mention, I work hard for my money and I worked hard to get a job that offers benefits and it is simply wrong to ask me to pay John's knee surgery in New York.

So John doesn't need a knee surgery because he doesn't have enough money? John might be the next Einstein, or simply you.

Of course my point of view is entirely different, just like Belgian history is entirely different.

[Blue]

McCain.

I'd like to see some drilling in the U.S.A for a change. And then there's my religious reasons.

And to the dipshit ahead of me, a lot of the most successful people in the world are those that are adopted.
Rape, is a bad thing, but just because someone wronged you, doesn't mean you have to wrong someone else. 2 Wrongs don't make a right. You have no right to take away someones chance to live because you messed up or someone else messed up.

[SpoonMan999]

Thanks I love discussion and for some reason I always have the opposite opinion of people xD


Wether the value of the dollar is high or low, it doesn't really matter. What does matter is if it's stable or not, and the governance of the Fed has been wrong or decades. They just keep printing money, and if the value of the dollar goes down, guess what they'll do? Print some more money!

The strength of the dollar is tied to our ability to trade in the world market, the reason we have to print more money is because something that used to cost $20 could buy us something worth about 20 Euros...Now? It takes $40, if we don't put more money into circulation the goods become almost unattainable.

On this forum yet I vote for one, but since I'm not American, of course I won't take part in the voting for the elections ;-)
Hence why I know little about their programs, if it were Belgian elections I'd know more about the programs. Belgium has also a lot more parties (10+).

The US has many parties as well, we only have two that have any influence though.

The US is known to cheat at international trade, they are about the opposite of freetrade. Basicly meaning quite some exporting companies are overvalued, and would see a quick dead without governmental help. They have been taking part a big deal in protectionism, meaning that money that could go to healthcare or education is being used for companies that aren't strong enough to survive. Nor does it stimulate international relations, which is really reaching a critical stage...

And McCain is for less government spending, just wants to lower taxes to encourage more goods manufactured within our borders. When the company saves money they can make more money. When the company makes more money the working conditions and average pay of their employers goes up. When there's more money in the people's pockets they spend more and the economy booms...it's a simple system.

A nice graph about this can be found when searching age structure USA in google (can't post links argh)
The babyboomers are aging and to support more older people, we need more young people that work to support them. Although this problems is propably not as dramatic in the USA, it is still a problem which can be solved by selective immigration. Simply opening the borders for everyone isn't going to do the trick, selective immigration is a great benefit however which is used in Canada for example.

Example: Retarded unborn child.
Abortion is possible at last 13 weeks after conception.
Are you going to tell me that you make anyone happy with simply FORCING these people to bring a child to earth that simply has no chance for a happy life?
Sure, as long as the parents live they can devote their ENTIRE LIFE to it, which is obviously a SERIOUS devotion which destroys their entire life, not only because they constantly need to take care of the child but also because the child cannot return happiness as much as other childs can. They constantly have problems, they aren't happy when other childs are happy, and they grow and become even harder to take care of because you can't simply handle them anymore.
And then the parents die of old age, a certainty.
Now tell me, what is left for this retarded child? Nothing at all, who is going to take care of this child? Not you because you're not going to pay for retarded John in New-York, are you?

Bringing a child to earth that has no chance for a happy life is selfish. Call it murder, well at the moment my grandfather is lying in the hospital after a cerebral hemmorrhage, stacked with a lung infection, kidney failure and diabetis he already had. We wish he could just get Euthanasia but NO law does not allow it because he hasn't put up the neccesary papers for it...

What life is going to be for him *if* he gets through?
1) Left side entirely paralysed -> Wheelchair, will need help to get dressed, use the bathroom, eat, etc
2) These functions maybe dropped as well: Hunger, thirst, emotion, sex drive
3) At least 3 times a week dialysis for his kidneys, obviously he will never be able to get a new kidney because he's 76.
4) At max 1 year to live

Are you going to tell me it's worth breaking the entire family emotionally to really add some years of suffering to his life, just because it's cruel to let him die in peace? Seriously, it's selfish.

If you talk about life you should really talk about a life worth living. You can save the soul of an unborn child by doing abortion in situations like:
1) Underaged parents; it will destroy the parents life + the baby will propably live in poverty (A friend actually had a baby at only 16 years old, SHE wanted it, sure she thinks it's fun to have a baby, but did she ever think about how it would be for the baby? She stopped school to take care of the baby, her parents run a café where no one goes, and her boyfriend works in a factory)
2) Diseases that destroy the life of the baby + parents: Retartedness at certain levels (I'm sure some retard can really live a moderately good life), babies with a certain lifespan that is low (hard to decide what is low), will make the parents break down when they hear it, be happy with the baby as long as they have it and then break down entirely when it dies.
3) Serious physical handicaps like cojoined twins that will lead to certain dead or an unhappy life

I said I was pro choice. I questioned your logic in saying that being against abortion is evil. I agree with a woman's right to choose in keeping the child or not, though the father should definately have a say, I just don't see how opposing it is evil.

Also, pulling the plug on someone in immense pain is a very different situation. And as far as supporting people who are incapable of supporting themselves I am ok with that.

I have no clue how that means every doctor earns the same amount of money really. In Belgium we have a very advanced universal healthcare but that means in no way doctors have a limit on their income. If you think doctors that do the same but are worse are for the poor and doctors who do their job extraordinary well are for the rich, perhaps the middleages is the objective.


So John doesn't need a knee surgery because he doesn't have enough money? John might be the next Einstein, or simply you.

John may be the next Einstein, but he's responsible for himself and his own well-being as am I.

If John happens to be a single father trying to raise his kids on his own with no education and very little money. I'm all for lending a helping hand. But, if John is working part time because he doesn't want to spend so much time at work and more time out ****ing around then he doesn't deserve any aid when he gets hurt and needs help. I wont help people who wont help themselves and to force me to do it by taxing me for it...well that's bullshit.

Of course my point of view is entirely different, just like Belgian history is entirely different.[/quote]