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[SpoonMan999]

Catchy title, no? Before you read further I would like to say that this is not a flame but more of an observation of recent events here on the forum. In other words, some shit just happened and I wanted to talk about it.

A thread was just closed about threads being closed, ironic I know, and yet it wasn't really off topic and a rule was cited that I wasn't aware of. That rule? You can't flame mods. Since when? I didn't realize they were immune to criticism and the rule is really kind of stupid. If you're sensitive to such things then don't click that little link labeled, "Steam Room!"

And now about it not really being off topic; off topic would be replying to a thread about the CES convention with how much you love your mother. Natural progression of conversation, however, is not being off topic. If I state that I had trouble in science and someone replies they had similar trouble in math that's just conversing...it's what humans do. Someone says something that reminds someone else of something related and the conversation moves on. Now if the thread suddenly goes to a conversation about cars from my original science subject then yes it's gone too far off topic, but if someone says too many good threads are being closed and another in turn critiques the mods I belive that is just natural progression of conversation and a mere statement of opinion.

Now remember this is in no way an attack on Pam for closing this thread or an invite for all out war on the mods, as Metalhead might have suggested, rather this is an observation and invitation for discussion. Some of the older members might recall I was once a super mod and an administrator of one of Spit's other Blizzard related sites so hopefully my past on this forum will vouch for me being a bit more "even handed" in my judgment (Yes "level headed" would have been better to say but I'm a geek and Forgotten Realms always over powers logic). So when I say that this forum feel more constricted and less fun I'm not saying it's some sort of dictatorship or hate mongers or anything...but it certainly feels that way doesn't it? Maybe not quite to that extreme but it feels more limited and less expressive.

Just a thought.

"People should not be afraid of their governments. Governments should be afraid of their people."

[PoTatoes]

Our job is too moderate, no one said we had to be nice :)

[Pamela]

Well Spoony I closed it because it became a hate thread and that IS against the rules.
I not only closed it I deleted it. I will not tolerate those type threads. I tried to answer in a level manner ,and people were getting out of hand. As a Mod you are a judge,you make decisions. When I am wrong I admit this and post it openly as well as PM the person. They never ONCE cited a *meaningful fun* thread that was closed. I open more than I close. I also leave what I think are fun threads open to give people a chance to look and respond.
I also knew when I took this job,this would happen.
I am sorry to tell you...my job is not to make you happy...it is to Moderate.

[fleaflickerx]

also when you say "People should not be afraid of their governments. Governments should be afraid of their people." This website is not like a government. In that statement you were praticly comparing the mods to royalty, which we are in no way, sorry i don't have time to elaborate on this but i gotta run.

[L4E]

Your jobs are to moderate
well then, do your jobs right or dont do them at all.

From what I've seen, Pam seldom makes mistakes, but sorry Pam, since when was "flaming mods" not allowed in the steam room...?

Flea, I saw your "new rules" for flame section. No direct flaming of other members? Well what the hell do you want us to flame at? (i think u meant no THREADS directly flaming a member, might wanna re-phrase that)

And potatoes, you just randomly close threads and randomly call "spam" on people.
Most people who've been made mod since "blizzsector" just dont cut it compared to the old d2sector mods we used to have...

But hey nobody's perfect, just dont make the same mistake twice.. or three times

and again.. im just criticizing your modding, i have nothing personal against you all. Dont get your panties in a bunch.

[SpoonMan999]

also when you say "People should not be afraid of their governments. Governments should be afraid of their people." This website is not like a government. In that statement you were praticly comparing the mods to royalty, which we are in no way, sorry i don't have time to elaborate on this but i gotta run.

You notice how it was in quotes? That means I was quoting something and it's actually completely relevant here. Someone said they never complained about things because they were afraid of getting banned for stating an opinion. That's when you might want to look at what you're doing and wondering if something you're doing is causing that fear.

And Pam here's one thread for you...the Star Wars vs. Star Trek thread. Why was that closed? I'm a major geek and enjoy talking about such things and because we were arguing over who would win in a fight it was closed. Is that off topic? I don't think so, it was part of the discussion of which series is superior. And you don't need to tell me about the job I've done it before and have had people angry at me for something I did. But never was anyone afraid to tell me what they think because they didn't want to get banned.

[wm_hunter]

Oh man.. I really don't want to get into this one....

I can see both sides as being justified here. I understand that you (Spoon) may think there are personal bias about flaming mods vs flaming users, and that the rules may not reflect a rule against this.

But, I can also see the mod argument here. The thread on Malth was closed, and I have never seen any other hate thread that did not be closed quickly. (Insult That Asshole took a while, but that was more general). Although it may be an unwritten rule, I know that many moderators close many threads that get out of hand on the hate.

At the end of all of this, we are left with one thing. The fact that Pamela did not simply close the thread, but deleted it out of disgust. In my opinion, this is the only thing that the general forum community can complain about. Simply closing the thread would be following what we do about all of these threads that get out of line.

I can understand why Pamela can delete the thread out of disgust. I can relate with her on the kind of retarded comments that get mixed into the one-two competent ones in topics like this on the forum. But I think that her deleting this topic is going to cause a large backlash in the community, because it appears to the community that she is showing a personal bias towards moderators.

Who I side with more is really not important here... I think that both sides can come out and apologize a little bit though. Spoon and others should realize that she dealt with this thread the same way that we have dealt with other hate threads in the past. The mods should realize that it should be only closed, regardless of the hateful comments, just like all of the others. I am not going to say that Pamela's decision to delete the thread was a mistake, but I don't think that she realized the backlash this could cause at the time.

Compared to most other forums I have been on, we have the most unbiased moderating community... and a user base that can actually crack out some interesting discussions once in a while.

To pull a Spoon:

"Can't we all just get along!?"

[DaCougarMech]

it feels to me like every thread that has the slightest chance to hurt a feeling is being closed and all the fun is being sucked out of this forum

[FrogMan]

Well guys as admin I shall make an effort it to keep threads open, and this is something I shall try to do on the forum from now on.

This post is ofcourse not because of Pam, she doesn't really make mistakes around here but, I have taken notice of some criticism lately of the site/mods and I shall do my best to change it.

Also remember I have had to appoint alot of new mods fairly quickly so it shall take them time to get used to there postions.

A criticism against a member/mod shall be ok but if it degradeds into swearing/insulting a mod/member then i shall be giving out bans/warnings.

Ofcourse as always no spam shall be allowed.

And If you guys think that a thread was closed infairly feel free to PM me (I actually do responds to all my PM's)

Also MetalHead desereved his Ban.

And guys please feel free to use the Spam Arena thats what I made it for.

[fleaflickerx]

You notice how it was in quotes? That means I was quoting something and it's actually completely relevant here. Someone said they never complained about things because they were afraid of getting banned for stating an opinion. That's when you might want to look at what you're doing and wondering if something you're doing is causing that fear.

And Pam here's one thread for you...the Star Wars vs. Star Trek thread. Why was that closed? I'm a major geek and enjoy talking about such things and because we were arguing over who would win in a fight it was closed. Is that off topic? I don't think so, it was part of the discussion of which series is superior. And you don't need to tell me about the job I've done it before and have had people angry at me for something I did. But never was anyone afraid to tell me what they think because they didn't want to get banned.

I never said it was irreverent, all i said that this site was not a monarchy. Also in the Star wars thread, it was closed because you dumbasses did not listen to me the first time i warned you to stop, The question is "who do you like better" not "who would kick whose ass". just right on going, pam got sick of it and closed it before I did.

[xDBD]

actually don't delete;

mods are superior and i now recognize this. i'm sorry i even doubted the greatness and the judgement of such mods

[Grave]

Listen dont be afraid to step up once in a while we make mistakes and you do too so if you see something wrong dont be afraid to pm us and talk about it, dont make a huge deal about it. We are here to help.

[SpoonMan999]

I never said it was irreverent, all i said that this site was not a monarchy. Also in the Star wars thread, it was closed because you dumbasses did not listen to me the first time i warned you to stop, The question is "who do you like better" not "who would kick whose ass". just right on going, pam got sick of it and closed it before I did.

This is mod material? Someone who calls us dumbasses after he misinterprets my post and tries to save himself by making a dimwitted comment? Who said anything about a monarchy? I was trying to be respectful with my post and you not only attempt to insult my intelligence, which is laughable coming from you, but you insult everyone else who posted in that thread. What did I say before about natural progression of conversation? A conversation isn't very long or interesting if it just consists of, "Yeah I like that too." A bit of debate isn't a very dangerous thing.

And you know I tried to refrain from any comment on your recent promotion to a mod but you've just proven so many people dread you having influence here.

And Pam, you know I love ya and we've been friends a long time. So when I say, I don't feel you guys are doing a bad job I just feel sometimes you're all a bit over zealous, please don't take any offense.

I can understand why Pamela can delete the thread out of disgust. I can relate with her on the kind of retarded comments that get mixed into the one-two competent ones in topics like this on the forum. But I think that her deleting this topic is going to cause a large backlash in the community, because it appears to the community that she is showing a personal bias towards moderators.

I'm not angry at all about, or even mentioned, her deleting the thread. I'm more disapointed that we have to be on our guard now because the mods are suddenly immune to the Steam Room.

Also MetalHead desereved his Ban.

Yes, he did indeed. He went over the top but most of the people in the thread were not going to such extremes but once again everyone is forced to drop the subject because one person went too far. Instead of the one person being punished everyone was forced to feel some sort of retalliation for his actions.

[Mathalamus]

i dont really care what mods do, as long as it dosnt conflict with me, if they ban me for no reason then i would be mad, i like all the mods but i dont like it when they close threads that i created/ posted in without a good reason

[Pamela]

Well Spoony we have indeed been friends a long time. You have often helped and given me advice. Froggy PMd me about re-opening the thread and I agreed.I did not give you all the chance to voice opinions and I was wrong to cut you all off.So I appologize. I hope you get your thoughts across.