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silver_ice1212 Wrote:sure you've had a rough time but id like to see your sources first before you run toward the light at the end of the tunnel, besides votergate.tv
The article I gave you from the commondreams site has enough links in itself. Hell, http://www.commondreams.org is a great site by itself. Updated articles every day. But once again, SpoonMan will come in and say anything I link is liberal crap. To him, its either a republican source, an independent source, or a friggin left-winged liberal source. There must not be any democratic source to him. But I don't want to turn this into an argument over him.
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id like to say that any source you find will not give you pure fact... not unless u were there when it happened..... hows that for news
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Ok, I'll some it up to y'all
Diebold Election Systems is the top provider for election systems, these electronic touch screens are the used by about 30% of the voter's in the US election and they are 50% of the
total Electronic voting systems used for voting, so they count for about 15% of america's vote.
Quote:This fall, 30 percent of us will cast our votes by touching a screen on a computerized voting machines. No muss, no fuss - and no chads
Quote:world's biggest voting-machine company, Diebold Election Systems, which has over 50 percent of the market.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/07/2...2436.shtml
Diebold's CEO Walden “Wally” O’Dell is a straight out republican, he owns Diebold and is one of the most pro-republican's out there
Quote:Many of Taft’s and President George W. Bush’s major donors, like Diebold’s current CEO Walden “Wally” O’Dell,
Quote:Ohio deliver its electoral votes to the President” this year. On September 26, 2003, he hosted an Ohio Republican Party fundraiser for Bush’s re-election at his Cotswold Manor mansion. Tickets to the fundraiser cost $1000 per couple, but O’Dell’s fundraising letter urged those attending to “Donate or raise $10,000 for the Ohio Republican Party.”
http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0225-05.htm
So let's make sure we are hearing this correctly, Diebold's, the company that accounts to AT least 15% of america's votes in this election is owned by a Republican that OPENLY admited to getting electroal votes from ohio to the president, let's do some math shall we?
First off we need to find the total amount of people that voted in the 2004 election. 59,459,765 people voted for bush and 55,949,407 people voted for kerry, so now let's add that up, and it comes to a total some of 115,409,172, 115 1/2 million people voting in 2004's election, so now let's find out how many of those people voted using Diebold's E-Voting System's, and it comes to 7,693,945 7.7 million people that used Diebold's E-Voting Systems. So let's hypothetically say Walden “Wally” O’Dell got the bright idea to change half of those votes to republicans, let's see who the new preisdent would be if he didnt change them, so bush would get - 3846972 because that's half of the amount of people that used Diebold's machines, so bush's total votes would be 55612793, and kerry's total votes would be 59796379, America we have a new president!, even if Diebold's CEO Walden “Wally” O’Del just changed 2 million votes kerry would have won? dosnt this seem A LITTLE fishy?
now don't say that place is liberal or any shit because ive gather information from multiply websites, and if you find a way to prove me wrong tell me please 
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wow how long it take for you to sum all that info from the websites and u do bring up a very strong point voting should be done thew old fashion way a box,pen and paper simple as that
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took me 30 minutes but it got deleted so i had to retype it, but a pen and paper also isnt very reliable so i dont know...
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This thread is meerly a sad excuse for Kerry supporters to grasp the reason, if any what so ever, their failure candidate lost. If there is any reason he lost it is the constant attacking of the Bush administration. Had Gore have been elected what is happening know would have been inevitable. Someone just doesn't show up into a high ranking office press a wrong button, and the watch as the economy accidently falls apart. The economy takes time to change. It is not an overnight thing. As for the twin towers, it was caused by the Clinton Administration if anything. Clinton cut major funding to intelligence organizations such as the CIA, and FBI. How can you prevent something you have no idea is going to happen. Now don't say Bush could have prevented it, or that he knew what was going on. Sure he may have, but in reality he knew almost nothing with the lack of proper intelligence funding, and post 9-11 came major, and drastic changes to security and intelligence including the Homeland Security. And to worry about a deficit in the government. Be serious. The United States government has been in debt says its inception. Drafts? No, while Bush has claimed he would not institute drafts, can you be certain? But if he was going to, why wouldn't he have already? Tax cuts for the rich? What happens when a rich greedy man or woman starts to lose money? They try and make it back. The prices of the very products and services they provide skyrocket, and in the end we are the one who pays the price. And for any of you whom say the rich don't pay enough of the taxes, you don't know anything about taxes then. Less then the top 1% richest citizens pay over 15% of all American taxes! The Iraq war, and Afghanistan war, were inevitable in my opinion. Sure it may have been possible to prevent, but removing a ruthless dictator(s), and party from rule was essential to peace in the middle east. Suddam used to gas his own people just to test weapons. Millions died by his hand. And not to offend anyone if you did lose a friend or family member, but think about it a few casualties is nothing. Could you possibly comprehend if the news told the true number of opposing force deaths. In my own opinion for every one solider we lose, we must kill at least 50-100 of the otherside. Think about it more people are alive today than have ever died, a few lives are expendable for the good of all, and if your in the armed forces you MUST accept the possiblity that you may die. You don't join, and say I won't die, or if it gets close to that, get worried and run. Your in the armed forces, you and those around you must accept that, and the possibility you may die. If your only in it for college money, and you don't want to risk your own life, then you should have found another way. And saying Bush cheated is just a poor excuse to reason why Kerry lost...
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i kno but pen an paper is harder than electroic since u can just alter it with out a major problem and then there are hackers of course but i dont kno if they sent it via internet .or some other way but i think they should have sent it to the counter's as soon as the choice was selected with no stops at all and again im not even sure that did that......-_- (well im canadian so i dont pay much attention to this that much )
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How can any of you even think of the machines being rigged or hacked, without considering this... It may have just been the will of the people...
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how can you not consider it with so many fishy details and facts?
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What is a fact? It is a proven statement. Proven. These accusations are not proven. They are as of this very moment still works of imaginations across this country.
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maniac u must have voted for bush or wanted to if you wont even consider the facts laid in front of you even if it was right you would just deny it
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What is there to deny? When there is nothing lain in front of me that reach past accusations.
ilikelilkids Wrote:so what!!!! ill tell you so what i dont want to end up dead or have another terrist attack my bro is in iraq dude and its cause of ****in bush he makes poor decisions and i havent seen my bro in like wat 6 week... hes flying somewhere and i dont no what the hell hes gone through... my mom cryed when he got sent out... its all cause of bush....
edit replying to medicines post where he says so what if we have a dumb president for 4 more years...
bush cheated and hes gay as hell i want to beat his *** up
i totally take nublis side
Could just be because your brother joined the military...
nubli Wrote:I find it funny how people can say Bush didn't cheat in 2000. It was actually PROVEN to the american people, but never put on the mainstream news shows. But there were other methods (and channels) as well. If you heard about it and deny it, thats about the same thing as denying the fact that the Holocaust ever existed. Stupid right? Don't be so dense.
5 major mainstream media stations all covering up a scandal? Local news channels, radio, and the internet all trying to cover up some scandal? You know what happened in 2000? Florida made a major mistake... Thats what it was and it was nothing more.
knight_ofdoom Wrote:hey some1 saw the movie farenheit 911 , im canadian and i saw that movie and i was like damn ! how a dumbass like him can "won" again ! your people must see that movie. Bush know the osama benladen 's family and they are "friends" . it's hard to believe lol.
Don't be so idiotic. Fahrenheit 911 is more biased then Nubli's mainstream media stations.
N u b l i Wrote:I find it how blindly you can support Bush. It's downright sickening! You don't know the motives of Michael Moore. You don't know what he really made those movies for. All some republican does is get angry and say his name and a few made up bad things about him. Next thing you know, everyone says they hate him. Hmm, talk about your "own" opinion, no?
And America itself is ignorant. Close to 60 million voters just proved my point.
How in the hell do you figure out that 400,000 jobs were created last month? I think someone has the lies spewing from them. And how can you say the unemployment rate is lower than during the Clinton years? Clinton was a MUCH better president than Bush! The republicans did nothing but ***** at the democrats during the Clinton years; all 8 years he was in office, nothing but *****ing. They looked for every excuse possible to get him out of office.
You must not be a victim of Bush's misleadings, MedicineMan. I live alone with a single parent, so it's been pretty damn hard getting by. My mom got laid off because she was getting payed more than the company could afford. This was June 2003. It took her months of searching to find a new job. Finally she got a break and started working around Feb-March of 2004, and was fully hired in April. But during those off months, we came damn near losing the house and everything we had. Now I find it hard to believe it wasn't because of Bush. During Clinton's years, it was nothing but good times. Life was good, even if I was just a kid. Then Bush gets into office. Osama gets the idea to attack the US, knowing full well that Bush will try to go after him, but never whole heartedly. That is exactly what happened. Bush has forgotten all about Osama, and is only in Iraq/Saudi Arabia for the oil.
Now after giving you a small sample of why I hate Bush, maybe you will understand that many of us democrats are not blind and stupid. We KNOW what we are talking about. Like I've said before, if you are too dense to read the information and try to accept that these things such as cheating are POSSIBLE, then just don't even argue because it's not worth anybody's time.
PS - SpoonMan, of course it's all liberal information to you. All you think is either republicans or liberals. No inbetween. Now you always want "hard evidence." Well I'm not going to sit here and feed it to you. We have search engines. http://www.google.com is one I'm sure you've heard of. Try it one day.
Oh yeah and SpoonMan, watch the movie on http://www.votergate.tv there is a 300MB one and a 2GB one. For now, I know that the 300MB explains a lot of what I'm getting at.
As long as your a democrate, then you know whats going on. Thats basicly what your saying...
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Nubli you're pointing at all Republicans as idiots that don't know what's going on when all you do is provide crack pot theories with no realy proof...the man being a Republican and being in charge of those machines doesn't mean he rigged them. I noticed that Democrats got desperate as hell this year because of Farenheit 9/11. You know what again ignorance has caused me to quit these debates on here it's pointless because nobody listens and some seem to pull things out of their asses.
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"I'm not a geek, I'm just coolness challenged."
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SpoonMan999 Wrote:Nubli you're pointing at all Republicans as idiots that don't know what's going on when all you do is provide crack pot theories with no realy proof...the man being a Republican and being in charge of those machines doesn't mean he rigged them. I noticed that Democrats got desperate as hell this year because of Farenheit 9/11. You know what again ignorance has caused me to quit these debates on here it's pointless because nobody listens and some seem to pull things out of their asses.
I am glad you are quitting these little debates again. No matter what you just restate the same things in different words. You aren't even open to what I'm trying to prove. I can't thank LaMe enough for looking that stuff up, I just haven't had the urge to do that much lately (school hardships.)
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i say u both agree to disagree, nubli: ur quoting sources from multiple news stations
spoonman: your quoting stuff that may be accurate, but no 1 knows for certain. and u are also restating stuff
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laMe Wrote:okay guys this is ridicouls, first of all i completetly agree with you nubli
-Republican's run the voting machines, also the machines were mysteriously just put in ohio and other states
-Bush has cheated in 2000, and 2004, though many presidents have cheated
-There is nothing we can do about it
-we have to face the fact that bush won, kerry conceded he's honorable i think us democrats should take a lesson from him and just let it go, so what if we have a ****tard for another 4 years..
Aight..this is pointless...I Like Bush...I do NOT think he cheated..and this is becoming Flame..
~Closed~
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Pamela I am a supermod as well. I still want this discussed. It is alright if someone gets a little angry over someone else, like the president. I only take action on those who flame other members of this forum. Last I knew President Bush wasn't a member of d2s.
~Open. Discuss again, but please, use less profanity.
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i was watching the news early on the day after election day, and bush had 269 BEFORE he won ohio....there was no way for kerry to win, besides, in the history of the US, the president has NEVER changed during mid-war, i think if kerry won, he would have NO idea how to handle the war
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:mad: YOu know what to anyone who is 18 or older guess what? You didnt vote, out of the 100million or so newly registered voters the percentage of those voters was about the same as the last election. So with all your *****ing and moaning the reason why bush won was because people our age do what they always do. The sit on the lazy asses and complain about bush say why bush shouldnt be in office but yet do nothing about it. Bush didnt cheat he came nowhere nere to what the gore/Bush election held he just went on the predication on that all young people male or female gay or straight black white indian mexican jewish asian or any other assorment of diversity we carry in the country, and what is that predication? That we wouldnt even give two shits when it really came time to put our money where are mouths are, and thats in the voting booths and guess what? it never happened!!!!!
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