Last night's C-Span

[Mozzy]

For those of you who didn't watch c-span last night i completely understand. i normally spend my time on the computer instead of tv but i was flipping around and got interested. it was awesome. the proof is out there, america has been duped again. they're playing us all for suckers and they don't even give a shit. this is how the world works.

i wont' go into too much detail about the program but it's obvious to anyone older than 15 and with an iq higher than 70 that 9/11 was a total mockup.

i know some of you will never publicly admit that you got swilled into believing this crap but you should start reading about it for your private lives and maybe do something like writting a congressman or donating to some of these sites who investigate this stuff. don't wait for the draft to be reinstated.

one of the finer points of the program was the discussion about how norad purposely botched the defense of the nation and how it could easily have been stopped. some of you assumed that the f16s could not stop these jets from crashing and that america had no way of handling this situation. as one programs' speakers put it, a retired lt. col, "if the govt. did nothing the situation never would ahve happend." this means that standard operating procedures would ahve been followed to the t and f16s would have wiped out these jet liners or at least tried. it took a lot of effort to keep this from happening.

i argued this point very excellently if i don't mind saying so myself in a previous thread. i also had another fine point that has not been brought up on television or websites that i've seen. maybe it will but it's not that important, the basics of what happened are obvious. it's just a matter of what will be done about it.

anyway i dididn't want this to be much of a rant it's just that ther'es so much to say. when i see some of you guys hiding behind ignorance as if it's some sort of righteous shield it makes me sick to my stomach. i hope some of you change your minds and realize the boiling water we are sitting in.

[BlindMansTicket]

I stopped caring about 9/11 and focused more on my life about 4 years ago. I know it's fun to conspire and stuff, but you just gotta know that no matter how much YOU talk about it, nothing is going to change.

Blah Blah Blah believe what you want. Blah Blah Blah argue/debate it. In the end, nothing's going to change. You're just wasting your time.

[xDBD]

I stopped caring about 9/11 and focused more on my life about 4 years ago. I know it's fun to conspire and stuff, but you just gotta know that no matter how much YOU talk about it, nothing is going to change.

Blah Blah Blah believe what you want. Blah Blah Blah argue/debate it. In the end, nothing's going to change. You're just wasting your time.

i do agree but on the contrary i also enjoy reading about the conspiracy theories, and i do believe that it was a crock of shit. didn't read your whole post[thread starter] =\

heh

[Nubli]

I stopped caring about 9/11 and focused more on my life about 4 years ago. I know it's fun to conspire and stuff, but you just gotta know that no matter how much YOU talk about it, nothing is going to change.

Blah Blah Blah believe what you want. Blah Blah Blah argue/debate it. In the end, nothing's going to change. You're just wasting your time.

That's where you're wrong. As marginally small as it may be to just have a post on some random forum, people will read it. And out of all of those people, some will actually go research it further than face value. And out of those people who get somewhere, they will undoubtedly spread the word elsewhere. It may not be a large amount, but every little bit helps.

[BlindMansTicket]

The right people don't come here.

This is a forum for video games produced by Blizzard Entertainment, popularized mainly by Diablo. We might as well be in some pissant town in Venezuela.

[Tool]

I too stopped giving a shit about 9/11, the day it happened. Frankly, I don't give a shit that 5000 people died. Not one bit, if you don't like that, suck it. It didn't effect me. However, I do care about getting swindled by my own ****ing government. Of course, I have no power to change that, so I don't busy my mind on it for too long.

[Mozzy]

Tool, that's the whole point isn't it? none of us give a flying ****. if we did we would've done something about it by now. but how much of your life are you willing to give away before you do care? if you found out that 75% of your thoughts and feelings are expected and counted on by certain organizations to further their agenda would it matter to you? would it matter to you if water was privatized or if you were suddenly drafted into a bullshit war?

i think a lot of what's going on today is equivalent with the orwell novel 1984, only with one difference. it takes A LOT less to enslave a population than what the book described. apathy is the #1 cause. no one is asking you to storm the white house with machine guns. you have to realize that at soem point in yoru life you must take responsibilty for yourself and the choices that poeple are making for you like it or not.

also, i think that people in these forums are very capable and in many cases are highly intelligent or even geniuses. if the govt. was so smart they would know how to cover their tracks better in situations like these. the only problem is that they know they don't have to be, people will turn their heads and graze in their rotten fields as ordered.

for the record i do no support revolution. all that does is allow the middle class to become the upper class and the poor stay poor. wash rinse repeat adn you have the last 15,000 years of human history. the only hope is the children. that is all. maybe there are just too many people and that is the problem.

[wm_hunter]

Search for The Truth About 9\11 on the forum... I started a thread a while back on the movie by, Alex Harvey or whatever his name is. It has a lot of facts that really make you think... the stuff on the Pentagon is particularaly shocking.

[xDBD]

http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=alex+jones

I didn't want to get into this, but I do care. Check out the doc Alex Jones: 911 - Road to Tyranny. Alex Jones knew about the attacks well before the 11th, and even encouraged his viewers on his site (infowars.com) to take action before the attacks. There's a lot more than just "bad people blowing up our people."

It's more like our government blowing up our people to turn the average people into total sheep. Look at "Patriotism," right now. Four of my better friends who I never would have seen suiting up[in the past] are now in basic. As a whole we're sheep right now.

Dig deep. If conspiracy theories interest you (it's really not a conspiracy.. it's more fact now 'a days) check out my links, and stay tuned to Alex's site.

peace

[Eggbeater Abortion]

I watched Loose Change DVD's afterwards I wasn't suprized that it was all on our government. The only thing I hate about these conspiracy theories is that when you want to show someone them, and they go into "Patriot Defensive Mode" and say thats bullshit and call you a terrorist.

[Bowbow]

Unlike some guys here, I DO give a shit about 9/11 because I lived in New York City when it happened. Although I was in school at that time, I experienced it, all the drama and chaos. Firefighters and cops rushing to the scene of the incident. Smoke and debris all over. Everyone, including me, helping by donating food and water to rescue workers. Having to watch the horrific scenes of the towers collapsing and people running for their lives on the news over and over again. ****ing pisses me off that some people dont care because they cant do anything about it, but hey thats your view then.

And I've definitely heard and done my share of research about 9/11. Heard a public speaker/writer present his findings to our 10th grade class about 9/11 and how it could've been prevented, tensions in the past between Bush Sr and Iraq/Iran, and how 9/11 was a fake, created by the gov't. Search google / youtube for 9/11 conspiracy, and you'll see videos of how : The plane that supposedly hit the Pentagon had slid on the grass first (but why was the grass never touched?), the first plane that hit the tower caused it to collapse (yet there was an initial explosion in the tower before the plane even impacted), and to quote Mozzy "this means that standard operating procedures would ahve been followed to the t and f16s would have wiped out these jet liners or at least tried".

Frankly, even though I can't change how the gov't runs or operates, I still like to know about such stuff.

[xDBD]

You need to realize this is the internet and we ALL care. How could you live in America and NOT care? There's a strong difference from being an asshole online and being an insensetive fxck in real life. I feel sorry for all the innocent people that died, and I had personal ties too, but you have to learn to live and let go. You can't just dwell on a certain event forever. The insanity of the eleventh is beyond me and i'm over the loss my family has suffered.

I do not support anything to celebrate 9/11 because it's all still sheeping us. Why even wear those flag things like, remember 9/11? It's all one big stageshow to the gov't as far as I can see/care. The more pride we take in the "terrorism" that went down, the more pride we take in this nation, and in turn the government. It's exactly what they wanted when it was orchestrated originally.

I do not support anything like this. Alex Jones has been ARRESTED simply for asking Bush a question.. that he never answered FYI. The internet is really the only place where we can talk this stuff, because if brought up in a serious manner people think you're crazy. I bet if someone played audio samples[to the president] from some Doc uncovering things like.. the insurance that was taken out on the surrounding buildings weeks prior to the 11th, you'd face legal problems.



The picture is too big for me to take pride in a few lost lives. They didn't matter to Uncle Sam then and they don't now. As stated, I do feel for them, but i'm only going to suck up so much/

[SpoonMan999]

I'm not going to say it's bullshit and call you all terrorists but I will say I think you guys are extremely paranoid. Though Mozzy, for the draft comment I have to say you're at the top of the list for the most paranoid and perhaps ignorant person in the thread so far.

[A.D.]

I read through an article published by Popular Mechanics that went through and debunked about 20 conspiracy-ish topics pertaining to the 9/11 attacks on both the pentagon, the twin towers, and the plane that crashed in PA. I trust Popular Mechanics because they had a full works-cited and very straightforward approach. They asked first-hand witnesses what they saw. They asked archetechture (sp?) professors about the oddoties of the Tower's collapse, and the Pentagon attack. In many cases the truth is streatched or outright fabricated, I couldn't stomach watching the loose change video (either version of it, they made so many mistakes in the first they had to do a revision.. Not a good documentary if you can call it that)

NORAD has eyes on everything coming to the U.S. It has all it's Radar, Satallites etc to detect incoming threats to the U.S. which pretty much means there's a doughnut of information, and the connected states consist of the hole. NORAD does track flights, but only tracks them via on-board transponders which were disabled by the terrorists. Norad was able to pick up Kim Jong launching missles across the pacific, doing what it was designed to do perfectly: Protect us from outside threats.

Additional Comment:
I found the link.

http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/...27842.html

Just take the time to read it Mozzy. I know it's like 9 pages of intimidating, well-written arguements against these conspiracies with first-hand accounts, input from physics and structural engineering professors, and a full works cited page. A far cry from some greasy idiot typing up wild theories on the other side of the world.

[xDBD]

MY thing is, it doesn't matter how it happened. The results are the same: As a whole we are sheep. After September 11th, hell.. even I was ready to suit up and go to war. Kill the bastards who did this. This effect STILL lingers.

Nevermind all the ties Bin Ladin has to the American CIA.. none of that matters, because it's all conspiracy theories. Forget all about the warnings these 'conspirists' gave of terror attacks on our homeland MONTHS before the eleventh even thought of existing in infamy. Nevermind the insurance claims that were taken on the surrounding, damaged buildings not too long before they went down.. nevermind the papers confirming all of this.

Nevermind the fact that it was never looked into.


I'm not saying Uncle Sam did it for sure (although that's my personal belief) but you're a fool to deny involvement. Maybe ole' Sam did feel bad for the people who died, but I goddamn guarantee he's more than pleased with the pride people now have in the nation, and the faith many people have given back to the government. I refuse to deny there were hijackers who genuinely took over a plane and flew the bitch into the towers.

I also refuse to believe that the government did not have evidence of this. Hell, CNN, Fox, ABC, NBC.. they all had stories on how the government had "evidence" of terrorism happenings, but went to no measures to prevent it.



but dudes, I smoke dope. i'm a burnout hippie.. I really don't know shit and my words mean nothing.

Additional Comment:

I'm not going to say it's bullshit and call you all terrorists but I will say I think you guys are extremely paranoid. Though Mozzy, for the draft comment I have to say you're at the top of the list for the most paranoid and perhaps ignorant person in the thread so far.

The way I see it.. this post is the most ignorant one yet. Because it's all conspiracy theories[equally as biased, I admit] on one end of the spectrum, and on the other end it's totally biased government funded news programs.. we as the common people have no earthly idea what really went down. If the fact stands that the government pulled all the strings for the 11th.. that for whatever reason they would go that far as to kill their "own people" on their "own land".. then why is the draft so hard to grasp?

Sure it's farfetched and the government, atleast the part that we see, denies any will to instate it.. well, whatever. I just won't put the idea to rest. The draft does not scare me. If I do not want to fight the war I will not fight the war. It really is that simple.

but again, i'm just a burnout hippie. One that really doesn't care what the internet thinks of this said burnout hippie.

[SpoonMan999]

You act like I personaly attacked you, making these comments about being a hippy as if I accused you of such. I say the fear of the draft is ignorant because about every year there is a bill introduced to Congress to reinstate a draft...and every time it's shot down. We have no need for a draft, get over it. For the rest of your argument I refer you to Deadly's post.

[Mozzy]

Spoonman and Almost deadly, if you can come up with any rational answer why wtc7 fell to the ground, and in the manner it did i will give your thoughts consideration. i know you will just quote someone else, or use someone else's judgment as your own so that you can put yourself in a position of superiority in these here forums, but even so i'd like to see you try. it kinda hurts to see people like yourselves, capable of expressing yourself excpet not having the first clue who you are or what you care about. at least not online.

i know it's difficult to digest the fact that your life is nothing but a swollen zit on the ass of whoever is really in charge. and that's only true in a certain sense anyway. and that sense is power and money. for myself, i've never really had a problem accepting things the way they are, at least as best i can percieve.

as far as 9/11 goes, this is simply one example of corruption in the history of humanity. i know you two will be the first to condemn any who challenges popular history and beliefs as a conspirator (sp) but so was galilleo and many others who challenged the catholic church and other govt. authorities. personally, i believe that people like yourselves are wrapped in a make-believe blanket that your make-believe mommy has put around you to keep you safe and warm. that blanket is your "spirituallity". someone inside, far back in your brain you are programmed to believe in christianity or whatever religion you believed in when you were a young teenager and have since abandoned. you cannot come to terms or rationalize with the fact that there is no god on a white horse coming to save you, and that 50% or more of everything you've been told is a malicious lie. on teh surface of your mind thoughts like these will never rise but deep inside you feel that your life/soul will be justified and rewarded for whatever it is that your'e doing at some point in your future. you do not realize that life will never be fair or just unless you take accountability for yourself and do something about it.

oh btw, as far as the draft is concerned that's just a point. i'm sure whoever is in charge would enjoy an all volunteer army much more than having draftees. but it is interesting that that is the ONLY point i made that you can dispute using your OWN common sense and information instead of spewing some nonsense someone else told you to believe. this is also the only point i made that is debatable.

now you tell me, is that a coincedence or a conspiracy??
try to understand

Additional Comment:
I am reading the popular mechanics debunking and will type my thoughts after each page.

1st page - popular mechanics (PM) is debunking the eye witness accounts of a pod, suspected to be a missle or bomb attached to "flight 175 that hit the south tower of the world trade center". i have not heard anything about a pod or any such missle from any webpage and tv program regarding the 9/11 incident. i don't see what this has to do with anything. as best i can tell any pod attached to flight 175 would only serve to support the govts. story that the fires caused by the crash got hot enough to melt reinforced steel. and that these fires cause the simultaneous failure of enough critical structures to produce a perfect collapse of the building.

2nd page - ah this is my favorite so far. now we're talkign about f16s. major douglas explains to us the shortcomings of america's air defense on this particular day, hint hint. quote "on 9/11 there were only 14 fighter jets on alert in the contiguous 48 states..." notice he says "only", he does not offer any explanation why but he implies that there should have been more. quote "they [civilian air traffic control, or ATC] had to pick up phones and literally dial us." is he saying that this is a problem? is there somethign wrong with using phones?? he further informs us that NORAD was informed not once, not twice, but 3 TIMES that flight 11 was hijacked. whose argument does this support?? shortened quote "why couldn't the ATC find the hijacked flights? turned off transponders, searched 4500 indentical blips, buisiest air corridors. it ringed ******d for threats, no coverage in the middle." first off, are there any radars in existence that ring inwards?? how is this not normal and expected? secondly, are hijacked airliners expected to follow commonly travelled routes?? 3rd, would NORAD decide not to look near the pentagon and the white house? did they assume the planes were going to crash in bum**** pennsylvania??

payne stewarts small plane was intercepted by f16s in 1hr 22 min. how does this support their argument? first of all, am i supposed to beleive that 1hr 22min was a long time? how far did they travel? they do not say. it's an irrational number without more data. secondly, f16s were at least scrambled because of a small personal plane, do i need to point out the inconsistency?????

page 3. this page is full of more holes than i feel like countering. first off, PM says that conspiracists are wrong in saying the building were wired with explosives. they counter this by saying that gasoline could have damaged the lobby. is this debunking or he said she said? secondly, the correctly contend that steel does not have to melt to fail. no "conspiracist" said that it did. "conspiracists" wonder why "heated" steel would collapse in such a timely and organized manner. i wonder myself what the cooling period for this steel would be. sure it heated up fast but they are up in the sky with high winds, could they not have cooled fast enough to remain integrety? this point is not made.

Additional Comment:
page 3 continued - PM states that as the building collapsed, the initial floors spewed concrete and debree from the building BECAUSE OF THE WEIGHT OF THE BUILDING FALLIGN ON ITSELF. not because of the plane. i have seen videos of controlled demolitions and this does not happen. debree does spew but not from only one section of floors. if PM is correct, EACH FLOOR should have ejected a similar amount of debree as did the one in question.

page 4 - wtc7 collapsed due to high velocity debree from the other fallen towers colliding with the southwest corner of wtc7. so this begs the question, why did the building not fall towards the southwest????? have you ever played with legos?

quote
There are two other possible contributing factors still under investigation: First, trusses on the fifth and seventh floors were designed to transfer loads from one set of columns to another. With columns on the south face apparently damaged, high stresses would likely have been communicated to columns on the building's other faces, thereby exceeding their load-bearing capacities.

would these truss failures and communications of weight shifts and stresses not have taken time? were these safety features designed to ensure the complete destruction of the entire building or were they designed to do the opposite?


I AM BORED WITH YOUR WEBSITE - IT IS OBVIOUSLY POSH - IF YOU CAN DISPUTE MY FINDGING I WILL GLADLY READ THE REST OF THIS CRAP ARTICLE. I WILL NEVER IN A MILLINO YEARS BUY A POPULAR MECHANICS MAGAZINE.

Additional Comment:
almost deadly, i know you will not dignify me by reading my enitre post. i was hesitant to read your link because i already understood the futility of doing so. in any case, please read my entire post and tell us YOUR THOUGHTS.

[Eggbeater Abortion]

There is a spell check on this forum. Even if you're e-raged you should use it.

[Mozzy]

ok i see the spellchecker.

is that seriously the only thing your care about? are you a grammar teacher or something?

btw, it's "you're" not your. too bad there's not a grammar checker, or an intelligence checker. and it's damn sure a good thing there aren't any smell-cams.

[Eggbeater Abortion]

Okay? I said that there is a spell checker because, It made it that much harder to read that long ass Wtfathon.