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First of all I put this thread here in the steam room because I'm aware religion is a touchy subject. I did not put it here to invite people to bash on faith....
Now to my little story.
So, I was at a Bible Study that my friend Dom invited me a bud to attend to. So just Dom my friend Josh and I where there, (He's big on Faith hand all, and is trying to get me and a friend to jump on bored) and he was explaining Sin to us because Josh was curios about the subject. So Dom explained Original Sin to us. You know how Eve ate the apple and got Kicked out of Edin.
After words he go's on to tell us how even Catholicism is wrong. How you you can't buy you way into Heaven, and that you have to accept Jesus died for us to rid of Sin, and how that's the ONLY way.
That's when I ask something. I gave him a example, that I will now give to all of you.
Lets say theirs this guy (or girl) right. He some other faith, lets say Jewish, and he Cure's cancer. Lets even go a bit farther and say he solves world hunger.
Now we have this amazing guy (or girl), would he go to hell? Dom answered me simply "Yes". He than goes on to explain that if you where and baby, or in some other way not able to know of god or Jesus, that he believes that you may still be saved as God know what you would of chosen.
So I bring up to him. "Why even make humanity"? His response is that he would already have angles that worship him all day, he gave us free will to decided for our selves. I was like "Okay, but if he already knows what we are going to do, why wouldn't he just make the people who where gong to Heaven already in Heaven, and the people who where going to hell in hell?"
He didn't have a response, and that he would also like to know. But that the Bible says some things are for only god to know.
So what I would like to know is your view on all of this, and perhaps your own problems. I'm trying to get some insight into people's religious problems, and some insight in to my own.
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Your friend sounds a bit zealous methinks.
He seems very unreceptive to the acceptance of other peoples beliefs and faith.
This very narrow-minded attitude really really annoys me. Like, I'm a Catholic, but I'd never go force it down someone's throat, ya know? Live and let live as I say... 
I believe that sometimes good, right and kind actions speak more than steadfast beliefs, you know? Like, live as you should live, act as you should act, the whole do unto others lark.
Anywho, my 2 cents on the matter.
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Think in this way:
If you'll go to heaven, you could meet Tyrael and kick his ass for his leet armor and sword.
If you'll go to hell... well, heaven, according to bible, is not that fun anyway. Can you see those souls swimming happy in the River of Chaos?
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ZeroGTR Wrote:Think in this way:
If you'll go to heaven, you could meet Tyrael and kick his ass for his leet armor and sword.
If you'll go to hell... well, heaven, according to bible, is not that fun anyway. Can you see those souls swimming happy in the River of Chaos?
Hahahaha. Sorry 4 spam.
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RaZzor Wrote:Hahahaha. Sorry 4 spam.
Spam 4 fun! And God bless you.
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10-01-2008, 07:41 AM
(This post was last modified: 10-01-2008, 03:00 PM by Mathalamus.)
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![[Image: 2hgwxzk.gif]](http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j195/mathalamus/2hgwxzk.gif)
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10-01-2008, 09:18 AM
(This post was last modified: 10-01-2008, 09:21 AM by Frai7ty.)
Thanks everyone for your input. It's good to others view on the matter.
@Math: Christianity came after Judaism, so how is it Judaism got it's ideas from Christianity?
@ZeroGTR. Yea, I imagine that Tyrael will have so amazing gear. Hey want to team up and kick his ass when we get up there haha.
@pepereina: Your view seems similar to mine man. Seems to work well for me you know.
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10-01-2008, 09:32 AM
(This post was last modified: 10-01-2008, 03:00 PM by Mathalamus.)
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Old Testament, AKA before Jesus walked the earth. Well, a vast amount of religions that's is, not all.
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Mathalamus Wrote:christianity came at around the time jesus was born. i dont know when the other ones came to being.
Many, many religions came about before 32 A.D. (more or less the "start" of Christianity - resurrection of Christ and all that). Judaism, for its part, is about 4,000 years old - so, much, much older than Christianity. Also, in case you aren't aware (and no offense, but you don't really seem to know much about your religion - plenty of faith, but no knowledge), Christ was a Jew, and his teachings were a mixture of old Jewish beliefs (the Old Testament) and his own, new doctrines (the New Testament). So, Christianity is directly based in Judaism, and Judaism, for its part, may very well be based in Zoroastrianism, another ancient religion (it might not be, but the possibility is a distinct one). When Jesus died and was resurrected/reborn, the miracle of his death and rebirth was what caused the religion itself to come into existence - a combination of his prior teachings, and then proof in the form of a miracle. This, by the way, is all in the Bible - I'm not making up any of it, promise.
Can I make a suggestion? I'd highly suggest you learn more about your religion before you go about calling others wrong, including fellow members of your faith following a different creed (Catholic Church, the Orthodoxies, Nondenominational, etc.). I don't say this just to say "You're dumb, n00b" - I say it because I know that you as a Christian want to win souls for Christ. In fact, it's sort of a sacred duty. The way you do that is by convincing people that you're right. The way you convince people is by knowing your own religion through and through so you can make convincing, well though-out arguments for your faith, knowing other religions so you can draw comparisons (useful for convincing others that your faith is already like theirs, and better), and the ability to hold back on the preaching when it's not appropriate.
The way to NOT convince people of the truth of your ways is to do what you did above: proclaim that you're right and everyone else is wrong, are sinners, and are going to Hell. Imagine your reaction if, say, a Muslim walked up to you and told you that your view of God was wrong, that you were a sinner, and that you were going to burn in hell. Wouldn't exactly make you want to join Islam, would it?
Anyway, just some (hopefully) helpful criticism. Faith isn't a bad thing - but blind faith is.
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well.. i think he is right. i should learn more abotu my own religion. the post i made is hereby withdrawn
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See, that's the problem with Christianity, the whole "must convert others" attitude. It can lead to a lot of problems, as stated.
Everyone has there own beliefs and faith and should choose their own methods of worship or whatever in my opinion. Trying to ram something down someone's throat never ever works.
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pepereina1 Wrote:See, that's the problem with Christianity, the whole "must convert others" attitude. It can lead to a lot of problems, as stated.
Everyone has there own beliefs and faith and should choose their own methods of worship or whatever in my opinion. Trying to ram something down someone's throat never ever works.
Agreed. Which is why I was suggesting that he try to convince people, rather than the alternative.
I mean, myself, I'll never, ever be Christian for reasons entirely my own, but I'd much rather someone try to convince me using good logic and well thought-out arguments than the "ram it down your throat" method. Because that leads to a whole world of trouble. Ulster comes to mind. confused:
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i did find a website with 500+ reasons that God exists. i cant post it here cause im not allowed to. needless to say it has every possible reason, some original some stupid
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Yeah, that is kinds similar to the North. You seem to be a well-educated person Mundi 
See and yet it the last 5 years or so its amazing how mu7ch less and less of a problem religion has been up there!
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10-02-2008, 05:22 AM
(This post was last modified: 10-02-2008, 05:24 AM by Magister Mundi.)
pepereina1 Wrote:Yeah, that is kinds similar to the North. You seem to be a well-educated person Mundi
See and yet it the last 5 years or so its amazing how mu7ch less and less of a problem religion has been up there!
Yeah, there's so much hope...
...and then you find yourself in the middle of Orange Protestant neighborhoods in Belfast during marching season, and see the Peace Wall, and you realize that there's a fair amount left to be done. I'm well-educated in this particular area because I'm rather fiercely proud of my Irish heritage, and know people who've been directly affected by the Troubles. Plus, I've been there, and that helps a person understand things... if they bother to pay attention, that is.
And Math, I'm no atheist. I do, in fact, believe that god exists. And I think I know what you're talking about... I seem to remember stumbling across some monster list like that a while ago.
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pepereina Wrote:See, that's the problem with Christianity, the whole "must convert others" attitude. It can lead to a lot of problems, as stated.
Everyone has there own beliefs and faith and should choose their own methods of worship or whatever in my opinion. Trying to ram something down someone's throat never ever works.
A lot better than fanatical islam though, eh? If I weren't already Christian I'd rather have someone pester me and try to convert me than blow me up. That being said, I do realize how annoying Christians can be. I wasn't always one, but I made the decision myself and on my own terms to convert from agnosticism, and I know what it's like to be pressured. Makes you not want to be a Christian instead of become one like they want you to when you go to church with a friend or family member because they ask you to and being "volunteered" to be saved. Or having people pray over you while you're standing right there, hoping you'll convert. In that way I think Christianity does itself more harm than good. Catholics did it(though more severly and on a much larger scale) in the Americas way back when and it earned them a pretty bad name. Though I suppose they also killed non-believers like the aforementioned Islamic extemists...
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In te first post your friend said it was Eve eating the apple and them being thrown out?
None of that is correct.She was tempted to eat of the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil,and so did she eat of it and also Adam her husband did eat.
Apple is never in their at all.The sin was disobeying God as their Father.Now man and woman knew good and evil and finding shame at their nakedness did cover themselves.
The bible is a practical guide on how to live life to glorify God. As far as who goes where God has his own plan for it.If you want to find out?? Read the book.
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A Light in your Darkness...always there...and burning...
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Or die! Lol. Don't do that kids, I don't wanna be sued.
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Nethran Wrote:A lot better than fanatical islam though, eh? If I weren't already Christian I'd rather have someone pester me and try to convert me than blow me up. That being said, I do realize how annoying Christians can be. I wasn't always one, but I made the decision myself and on my own terms to convert from agnosticism, and I know what it's like to be pressured. Makes you not want to be a Christian instead of become one like they want you to when you go to church with a friend or family member because they ask you to and being "volunteered" to be saved. Or having people pray over you while you're standing right there, hoping you'll convert. In that way I think Christianity does itself more harm than good. Catholics did it(though more severly and on a much larger scale) in the Americas way back when and it earned them a pretty bad name. Though I suppose they also killed non-believers like the aforementioned Islamic extemists...
As for Muslim extremists - it seems that every religion goes through its periods of crazy fundamentalism. In the Middle Ages, it was Christianity that went on crusades, burned witches, heretics, and innocent people at the stake, did the whole conversion by the sword thing, etc. - while in Muslim lands, there was tolerance for minorities, scientific research, high rates of literacy, plumbing, libraries, etc.
Now it's reversed - it's fundamentalist Muslims doing the religious killing, intolerance, and prosecution, whereas the mostly Christian West is the center of learning. So, if it was first Christianity's turn, then Islam's, who's next?
...probably Scientology...
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