Intelligent debate on religon

[mikea454]

Ok so this was originally posted in tool's ***** religion poll. (http://www.blizzsector.co/steam-room/286...on-19.html) I posted before I had read the whole thread. Im thinking there is no hope to have an intelligent debate in a thread that had such poorly thought out comments (although some of them were definately intelligent).

-I am irsh and therefore was brought up Catholic

To any christians who have similar beliefs, I have a few questions.... looking specifically for answers to why, and not so much to answer of my sect doesn't do this or that.

1. first of all which religion are you, and if answering questions outside your personal experience, whats your exposure - friends, theology major..... and are you of a christian sect that believes Jews killed Jesus?

2. What happened to the commandment about no idols/craven images, it was the second commandment given to moses, where did it go? and how did the tenth commandment given to moses become two commandments (see my other post for both jewish and catholic commandments - religous racism )

3. PLEASE explain to me the holy trinity, other than its the catholic churches attempt to have Jesus be the son of god without breaking the first (and 'most important' commandment (having one and only one god)

4. why did we change from a loaf of bread to a wafer? Jesus used a loaf of bread (The last supper was a traditional JEWISH shabbot) and why cant we break the bread and drink the wine ourselves, why do we need a priest to do it now.

5. Why didn't the world end when Jesus came to earth?

6. What about all the inconsitancies in the churches stances? the sun revolves around the earth? Creationism? Crucifixtion through the hands - (must have been the wrists - hands are impossible - every cross and picture of jesus crucified or post-crucifixtion are WRONG) at least the catholic church smarted up and took a stance that is virtually impossible to disprove (a page right out of the playbook aka the bible)

7. Why does god hate homosexuals, hate master-bation (why cant I say this word) and have tones of racism and sexism in 'his words'

8. why do we need churches, especially lavish cathedrals that cost vasts amounts of money?

9. If god is 'perfect' why does he not let the starving child in ethiopa, in some remote village that missionary work never penetrated into - into heaven? same question for the child who would have been my uncle but died as an infant before he was baptised? also other chirstian religions, and jewish and muslim... is their faith so wrong that they are banished to hell.... could thing the christians came along and corrected 350,000 years of 'not knowing any better. what about animals? I recentely got my very first dog in SEpt. and that puppy has more emotions and is more 'human'. Sure she has the intelligence of a 2 yr old child or a auestro lopithicus (sp?), but Its clear she expresses: fear, happiness, sadness, remorse, desire for companionship, if she scratches me and I say oww! she comes over to give me kisses... she isn't good enough for heaven?

10. Why do we pray to saints? I thought you should only pray to god, saints were just people, humans, why should they be prayed to?

11. why is god always portrayed with human form and is male? with such great power why not something of more of a force of nature or a ball of energy?

12. I think that the theory of gravity is just a myth... Its actually unmeasureable phlogistan that keeps everything 'glued' together... you cant dissprove the existance of soemthing unmeasurable so we should all believe this.

13. why cant you have sex before marriage? why cant condoms be distributed in Africa to keep the deaths from STDs to a minimum? Is this the word of god, or some sexually repressed and probably homophobic (because of homosexual desires he wished to keep repressed) man(men) from 2000 years ago? What kind of lvl of intimacy can you have with a person if you haven't ever really kissed then - yet you should pledge your life to them?

14. the 3rd/4th commandment - Keep holy the Sabbath - It used to be Saturday, Moses held it on saturday, Jesus held it on saturday - why do Catholics have it on Sunday?? Our we breaking a commandment by keeping holy Sunday and not saturday now? Is this just another frail attempt to seperate themselves from their jewish cousins?


______________________
WE have no copy of the ORIGINAL bible, just what was copied from copies of copies (and guess who was making these copies - prolly some monk who dedicated his life to the book - wouldn't hurt to touch things up a little to help save those non-believers.) There may well be a God, and we may possibly be worshipping him as he wishes, and living life as he would prefer us to, but religion wraps this up in cloak of additional 'stories' to seperate itself from other religions and further there own personal gains. Why should we hang on their every word when we dont know which word is theirs and which is the word of god himself. Is God going to punish us for not picking the correct religion, with the correct version, and believing only the correct parts within that religion. How have people taken religion to far you ask??

Lets look at the Orthodox Jewish religon (and stop picking on catholics for a minute). **"God created the world in 6 days and on the 7th he rested' -- lets just say for argument sake this is true. Now their are some people that believe that they should do this too and do no work on the seventh day of the week (saturday). In fact they want to be so sure that they dont break this rule that they wont:
1. carry an umbrella when it rains - cause carrying anything is work
2. drive a car/bus/bike anywhere
3. clean house, shower, cook dinner
4. turn on lights - this is the modern equivalent to making fire and making fire was always considered work
Beleieve this list goes on and on and some of the more extreme sects go so far as pre-ripping toilet paper, cause the act of ripping toilet paper is work and therefore must be preformed on a work day not the sabbath
**"you shall not cook a lamb in its mothers milk" - granted this sounds a little screwed up, but lets face it - once people stopped living on a farm with one sheep and her lambs this match will never be made. Cookin lamb in cow milk seems less severe or even a beef in another cows milk. Whats orthodox do to make sure they NEVER break this rule
1. Never have meat and milk in the same meal - just to be sure there is no cookin/mixing of the two. This includes a glass of milk with meat, cheese on your cheeseburger, cream sauce on your pasta with meat/chicken.
2. Use seperate dishes/silverware/pots for meat meals and milk meals - just to make sure there is no crumbs of the previous meal to mix
3. Restaurants are segrgated to either be meat or dairy restuarants - never both
and again this is just the tip of rules

these are just a few examples of how something that may have been the word of God to start was taken WAY to far by people over many many generations. Rules were still being added thousand years later. Ok I need to do work.... more later perhaps

[Lynch]

Didn't read all of the post, but what about the selling of church positions and the church taxes? These were both in medieval times before the Protestant Reformation. After studying these in school I was ashamed of my religion and now i consider my self athiest. Do some research on it. It is pathetic all the begging for money and such. Theres enough scientific evidence now to prove we evolved.

~Lynch~

[mikea454]

Oh Ive read about them many times and dont forget the selling of pardons - (BUYING God's forgiveness - nauseating ), and although those are no longer a practice (as far as I know) the catholic church still does some equally vile things. For instance a friend's mother who got divorced paid an absurd amount of money (perhaps 20,000$ or so, I forget the figure) to have her marriage annulled - wiped from all records in the eyes of the church. I had no idea they still did this, but perhaps thats because I couldn't afford to 'buy' such things.

[DaCougarMech]

all religions are made up, whether or not they are correct in their beliefs because they are all based on generations of superstitions. there may well be a god. there might not. however, our religions are lies because they don't base themselves on proof, just on the faith of their followers

[Lopty]

Your debate is nothing. Those questions have no use here as you can find answers to several of them on google and almost all of them by asking a priest, and he will answer you. Just for the hell of it, I'll give answering them a shot.

1. Christian
2. I presume it was discarded in Christianity but kept strong by the Muslim faith. Also, Christians are not worshipping a new idol, Jesus IS God, not some other person that came along talking about him.
3. The trinity. God, who impregnates Mary, making the second part, Jesus. He is then killed and gives magical powers to his apostles so that they may spread his word as the Holy Spirit. There's your trinity, not too hard is it?
4. It's easier.
5. Why the hell should it have?
6. They were wrong at first and decided not to change it.
7. It's viewed as "unnatural." There are no homosexual animals and monkeys don't pleasure themselves, or any other animal for that matter, when they very well could if they wanted to.
8. For a place to worship.
9. God cannot interveine in the lives of others on a daily basis, and to help starving children things would be have to taken away from others. Why the hell do you use Etheopian children as your example? You have nothing else better to think of, probably watching too much South Park and come here to make yourself look good. There are starving children, fathers, mothers, entire families even, all over the world and most likely in your own city. Why is it that every other religion is damned to hell? WRONG! People who do not accept god are damned to hell. Muslims accept God, the just do not believe that Jesus was his son. Jewish people accept God. As for animals? It is thought that they have no soul, and therefor cannot go to heaven nor hell.
10. We pray to saints because they are not human, but have become God-like for there actions on Earth. Saints are like angels.
11. God is portayed a male human because he is portayed as his messenger. It is stated that God has no single form. Have you even read the Bible?
12. Gravity is measurable you ****. Its force has been measured and, if anything, it is most definitely not a "phlogistan" or a phlogiston. Gravity has nothing to do with combustion.
13. It's believed to encourange fornication, which in Christianity is a damnable offense without confession.
14. The Sabbath has been kept. The changing of the day does not mean it has been broken.


This was not a debate in the slightest.

Almost forgot, concerning your second post on the selling of pardons, that was from the greed of man, do not accuse God of that.

I am in no way a devout to Christianity, but I'm not about to allow somebody bash a religion that they didn't spent so much a few minutes looking at correct information or talking to a priest.

[Crimson_Brilliance010]

Since Mikea has seen fit to move intelligent conversation to a new thread, I will follow him faithfully. Along with intelligent input as follows:

WOW! I. am. amazed. These are chief editor caliber questions. I applaud you. Let me be the first to step up.

Black Baptist (don't really know if there's a difference between white and black or Mexican for that matter) Btw, I am only going from what I know, which is all anyone can ask.

I think I'll take 10 for 200, please.

What is, "In my church, we don't pray to saints, we do pray only to God.

OK, I'll take 8 for 400, please.

What is, "Lavish cathedrals we don't do, but as for churches, we need those because we need a place that has been specifically made for praising Him. Churches, especially the one I go to, pray long and hard,after they've received his instruction to make a sanctuary, and then place Bibles in the ground in specific places before they cement the foundation. It is His wish for us to praise Him, especially on ground dedicated to Him."

Ok, I understand that the question wasn't directed to me, but to answer your question. We can pray/praise anywhere. He just likes it when we do it in specific places together. (Don't know if this is the right thread to bring this up in but,) There's a verse in the Bible that I'll have to find, but paraphrasing it, it's about this. I'll be sure to post after I consult my people.

Stain glass windows, yes. Bell tower, no. Brick church, yes.

And I don't think it would be too much trouble for those contributing to list their religion, as I have.

P.S. You spelled "religion" wrong.

[Lopty]

P.S. You spelt "question" wrong, Brilliance

[mikea454]

Spelling mistakes.... who cares, we are talking about an important topic, and I spelled religion right several other times, so clearly a typo.

2. I presume it was discarded in Christianity but kept strong by the Muslim faith. Also, Christians are not worshipping a new idol, Jesus IS God, not some other person that came along talking about him.

Discarded - the sacred commandments given by god himself to moses are disposable? and yes thanks to our 'holy trinity' concept it is not a new idol, but is still a craven image which is not allowed in the jewish faith. Ever been to a synagague - there are no images of any people - gods or saints. This is a manipulation by the christian church.

3. The trinity. God, who impregnates Mary, making the second part, Jesus. He is then killed and gives magical powers to his apostles so that they may spread his word as the Holy Spirit. There's your trinity, not too hard is it?

Magical powers?? I know what three make up the trinity, I was asking for an explanation of the concept of the trinity

4. It's easier.

Well its also easier to not to get up on sunday and go to church... this is not a reason - your answers are shallow regurtations.

5. Why the hell should it have?

because the scriptures say the end of the world comes with the coming of the 'messiah' - you know judgement day....

6. They were wrong at first and decided not to change it.

People once believed the world is flat.... shall we stick to that as well - again this is not an answer - I invited an intelligent discussion

7. It's viewed as "unnatural." There are no homosexual animals and monkeys don't pleasure themselves, or any other animal for that matter, when they very well could if they wanted to.

Homosexuality is 'unnatural' .... First of all there is documented evidence for gay animals or animals that are attracted to others not even of their species.... first google hit on the subject from the wikapedia - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality_in_animals
also mentions mastur-bation in many animal species and in both sexes. Additionally humans have argueable the greatest satisfaction from sexual activity (pigs possibly the other - since they can also have orgasms). Also if god didn't want us to have sex outside of procreation and not mastur-bate than why do we have so many nerve endings in those areas that give us such pleasure?? (the **** definately has one of the top densest nerve collections in the human body - ears, fingertips - not so sensitive. The brain is obviously the most dense w/ connected spinal cord)

[url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality_in_animals][/url]
8. For a place to worship.

why cant we worship anywhere, specifically not a building that rivals palaces and castles in lavishness - again your answer says nothing

9. God cannot interveine in the lives of others on a daily basis, and to help starving children things would be have to taken away from others. Why the hell do you use Etheopian children as your example? You have nothing else better to think of, probably watching too much South Park and come here to make yourself look good. There are starving children, fathers, mothers, entire families even, all over the world and most likely in your own city. Why is it that every other religion is damned to hell? WRONG! People who do not accept god are damned to hell. Muslims accept God, the just do not believe that Jesus was his son. Jewish people accept God. As for animals? It is thought that they have no soul, and therefor cannot go to heaven nor hell.

I used that example long before south park and for the record almost never watch the show. And I realize there is hardship throughout the world. Perhaps you dont believe believe jews or muslims are damned to hell but there are christians who do believe this - and if you read my introduction I was address questions to groups they are true for. If your sect of christianity believes all you need is a belief in god then the question was not to you - however I highly doubt they would be so forgiving to non-christians.

10. We pray to saints because they are not human, but have become God-like for there actions on Earth. Saints are like angels.

godlike? become angels? why because the pope named them a saint? how do we know they didn't wind up in hell for some secret perversion? perhaps your praying to deaf ears... praying to god I understand, but not saints

11. God is portayed a male human because he is portayed as his messenger. It is stated that God has no single form. Have you even read the Bible?

I have read the bible - and I know this, but he is still repeatedly portrayed as a man - because men are the portrayors

12. Gravity is measurable you ****. Its force has been measured and, if anything, it is most definitely not a "phlogistan" or a phlogiston. Gravity has nothing to do with combustion.

whats with the language - there is no need for swears in intelligent conversation. Gravity is just a theory - you are not measure gravity, but you are measuring its affect on objects.... yes you can measure how a ball falls to the earth but this is an indirect measurement. Gravity is far more complicated than this and recently physics suggests many theorys of explanation including a theory that gravity is a force which seeps in from another dimension of space time (this is by a prominent physicist) - There is a general agreement in the physics community that there are more than 3 or 4 of the typically suggested dimensions. String theory suggests at least 8 and M-theory at least 11 I believe (dont remember the exact numbers) As for phlogiston congrats on actually knowing what that word means - I was just using it to illistrate a point - using a made up word from a long ago dispproven theory. Clearly an analogy that escaped you.

13. It's believed to encourange fornication, which in Christianity is a damnable offense without confession.

And why is sex evil???

14. The Sabbath has been kept. The changing of the day does not mean it has been broken.

The day has been changed... the commandment does not say keep one day a week holy.... it says keep the SABBATH holy. Who is any man to decide which day this is. (sabbath translates to saturday)

This was not a debate in the slightest.

your right your answers, answered nothing. You have no free thought of your own to share

Almost forgot, concerning your second post on the selling of pardons, that was from the greed of man, do not accuse God of that.

I never accused God of such vileness.... I was merely commenting on the corruption of the church, and the men who are suppose to our religious leaders. My comment was merely my digust at the idea that you could 'buy god's foregiveness'.

[Crimson_Brilliance010]

Burn. Anyway, I have a few comments.

As for 3 I believe the answer your looking for looks like this: God is the beginning. (first part of trinity) He created the universe and so on and so forth. After a period of time, mankind became wicked once again (after the flood). God doesn't like this cause he loves us. And since he loved us he sent part 2 of the trinity in a virgin vessel, Jesus. His life was devoted to giving us God's instructions and right the wrongs we were doing. Then came time to make the ultimate sacrifice, for him to give his life for billions and billions at the time and afterward. But we were worried because we loves us some Jesus. So, he leaves us with a solution, the Holy Ghost (or spirit). The third part of the trinity. He's going to stay here 'till Jesus gets back. Then the world will end and blah blah blah 1,000 year reign of Christ blah blah blah release of beast blah blah blah new heaven new earth blah blah everlasting peace.

Bottom line: They are different entities, but they are ALL the SAME one God. He's good like that.

Additional Comment:
Question 5 I believe pertains to the 2nd coming of Christ.

Additional Comment:
Question 13: Sex isn't evil, it was just meant for those married folk. God like it when 2 virgins marry. Why do you think there was the parable about the 10 virgins and the bridegroom. Mastur-bation as far as I know is good people, but fornication isn't taken lightly. There are also references to the "marriage bed". I hope I've adequately explained it. I feel confused myself. Maybe you can catch my drift.

Additional Comment:
14 I believe actually depends on the country because in Latin countries the week starts with Monday, actually making the weekend the "Week End".

[Fuggle]

8. Because Religions are money-making cults. That's all a religion is, a cult. Just look at the crusades, that tells you enough about religion.

[Tool]

Lololol Religion Is Dumb!! Lololol

[Crimson_Brilliance010]

Damn it, Tool. Don't you have a religion bashing thread already? Go hate there. Especially since the title is "Intelligent debate on religon", something you so desperately lack in.

[xDBD]

1. I am spiritual. I believe in myself and karma(to an extent) and I believe that we can find truth and greater meaning through ourselves and our deeds. I don't adopt many beliefs by most major religions, but I dabble here and there. For example, I think in theory Jesus Christ was the best individual to ever live. He preached love and kindness and had a real grip on karma and respect. He stuck to his guns and died by them. The only thing that gets me is the whole "God is my biological father" nonsense. Had he not adapted the god complex he would have been my idol.

2. I don't know.

3. The holy Trinity: Father -> Son <- Holy ghost. Essentailly I think it's a matter of Karma. Karma is a very diverse concept and word. I think that the Holy Trinity is like.. you have to go full circle to get to the end. If God is Jesus's father, and Jesus is the savior, you have to have faith in both of them (holy ghost) in order to grasp the concept. Blind faith, anyway. I was raised baptist and that's how it was always explained to me.

4.->6. Who knows/cares?

7. Why do rednecks hate blacks? Who knows. The bible was written by delusional, white[see: not black], straight arab people. It would not surprise me if these racial tints you speak of were towards whites and africans.

8. We don't. Money hungry pricks and fake religious zealots do.

9. He's not perfect. IMHO religion is a guideline of how to live a decent life. Ideally if poeople would follow the bible.. well, to quote one of my favorites:

You ain't livin' for no God, no
You be livin' for the dollar sign
I say a frown upon your makers face
you shall find

10. I don't pray to anyone, how about you? I believe in myself and the people I love.

11. Male humans wrote the bible. If your god was a rollie pollie would you worship him?

12. Don't even want to comment

13. You can. People choose not too.

14. Times change. Dates hold different irrelevences. If you truely believe that whatever day is the Sabbath, who is to judge?

--

I believe in God. We're literally a living god. We are god. We're it. We can make our lives hell or heaven. Which do you want? I was raised Baptist and probably would follow it had our god not been the mighty dollar. Other than that, the only objective the Baptist/Church of God places I went too.. well, their goal was to send black people to hell.

Welcome to Dixie.

All these things you're asking "why do we have too.."
the answer is you don't. You choose too. The modern day Catholic church is a joke. I've never seen a Catholic temple that wouldn't set you back 500 grand. 500 G's to worship a "living god." Yeah, I bet they expect you to chunk in a full 10% of your check too.

Get out.

Live your own life. Choose your own path and don't believe fairytales in a book.

I'm not trolling and i'm being serious.

[foameh]

1. first of all which religion are you, and if answering questions outside your personal experience, whats your exposure - friends, theology major..... and are you of a christian sect that believes Jews killed Jesus?

Christian, but I was raised Southern Baptist.

2. What happened to the commandment about no idols/craven images, it was the second commandment given to moses, where did it go? and how did the tenth commandment given to moses become two commandments (see my other post for both jewish and catholic commandments - religous racism )

What do you mean "Where did it go"? It is stated that Christians are to have no gods and/or idols before God Himself.

3. PLEASE explain to me the holy trinity, other than its the catholic churches attempt to have Jesus be the son of god without breaking the first (and 'most important' commandment (having one and only one god)

It is one God, only made up in three parts. All three are God, yet none of the three are the same. Take for instance an egg. You have the shell, the white, and the yolk, all 3 make up the egg, but all 3 are different from one another. Or, take a pizza: you have the crust, the sauce, and the cheese, all 3 make a pizza but are all different from one another.

4. why did we change from a loaf of bread to a wafer? Jesus used a loaf of bread (The last supper was a traditional JEWISH shabbot) and why cant we break the bread and drink the wine ourselves, why do we need a priest to do it now.

We don't need a priest to do it now, you are basing this question off of the Catholic beliefs, which I don't believe would be smart if you knew anything about there religion (not implying you don't, I'm just not fond of their belief system and how it isn't in accordance with the Bible)

5. Why didn't the world end when Jesus came to earth?

Why would it? The world ends when God comes to earth. Jesus came because we were sinners and tried so many different ways to ask for forgiveness (slaughtering lambs). The purpose of Jesus coming to earth was to die, and when he died he took the sins of all mankind upon Him so that when we reach Judgment Day, we are forgiven as long as we recognize what Jesus did for us and believe it to be true.

6. What about all the inconsitancies in the churches stances? the sun revolves around the earth? Creationism? Crucifixtion through the hands - (must have been the wrists - hands are impossible - every cross and picture of jesus crucified or post-crucifixtion are WRONG) at least the catholic church smarted up and took a stance that is virtually impossible to disprove (a page right out of the playbook aka the bible)

I don't see how the process of a crucifixtion should rattle your beliefs. But, I'm not sure so I'll have to research some. Other than that, I guess if they were wrong about the earth revolving around the sun (as was everyone else in the world) yet predicted where, when, and how (of a virgin) Jesus would be born isn't enough proof?

7. Why does god hate homosexuals, hate master-bation (why cant I say this word) and have tones of racism and sexism in 'his words'

He doesn't hate homosexuals, he disapproves of their sexual choices. Proverbs 6:16-19 tells us, "There are six things the LORD hates, seven that are detestable to him: haughty eyes, a lying tongue, hands that shed innocent blood, a heart that devises wicked schemes, feet that are quick to rush into evil, a false witness who pours out lies and a man who stirs up dissension among brothers." Notice that homosexuality does not make this list. That does not mean that the Bible approves of homosexuality. The Bible consistently tells us that homosexuality is a sin (Genesis 19:1-13; Leviticus 18:22; Romans 1:26-27; 1 Corinthians 6:9). Homosexuality is described as an abomination. Romans 1:26-27 teaches explicitly that homosexuality is a result of a continual rebellion against God. When a person continues in disbelief, the Bible tells us that God “gives them over,” God allows them to experience their sinful desires and the resulting consequences. 1 Corinthians 6:9 proclaims that homosexuals will not inherit the kingdom of God. Homosexuality is immoral and unnatural. It is a perversion of the "natural order" and more importantly, God's view of sex.

8. why do we need churches, especially lavish cathedrals that cost vasts amounts of money?

The church is to teach Biblical doctrine so we can be grounded in our faith. Ephesians 4:14 tells us, “Then we will no longer be infants, tossed back and forth by the waves, and blown here and there by every wind of teaching and by the cunning and craftiness of men in their deceitful scheming.” The church is to be a place where believers can observe the Lord’s supper, remembering Christ’s death and shed blood on our behalf (1 Corinthians 11:23-26). The concept of “breaking bread” (Acts 2:42) also carries the idea of having meals together. This is another example of the church promoting fellowship. The final purpose of the church according to Acts 2:42 is prayer. The church is to be a place that promotes prayer, teaches prayer, and practices prayer. Philippians 4:6-7 encourages us, “Do not be anxious about anything, but in everything, by prayer and petition, with thanksgiving, present your requests to God. And the peace of God, which transcends all understanding, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus.”

9. If god is 'perfect' why does he not let the starving child in ethiopa, in some remote village that missionary work never penetrated into - into heaven? same question for the child who would have been my uncle but died as an infant before he was baptised? also other chirstian religions, and jewish and muslim... is their faith so wrong that they are banished to hell.... could thing the christians came along and corrected 350,000 years of 'not knowing any better. what about animals? I recentely got my very first dog in SEpt. and that puppy has more emotions and is more 'human'. Sure she has the intelligence of a 2 yr old child or a auestro lopithicus (sp?), but Its clear she expresses: fear, happiness, sadness, remorse, desire for companionship, if she scratches me and I say oww! she comes over to give me kisses... she isn't good enough for heaven?

All people are accountable to God whether they have “heard about Him” or not. The Bible tells us that God has clearly revealed Himself in nature (Romans 1:20) and in the hearts of people (Ecclesiastes 3:11). The problem is that the human race is sinful; we all reject this knowledge of God and rebel against Him (Romans 1:21-23). Apart from God's grace, God would give us over to the sinful desires of our hearts, allowing us to discover how useless and miserable life is apart from Him. This He does for those who reject Him (Romans 1:24-32). In reality, it is not that some people have not heard about God. Rather, the problem is that they have rejected what they have heard and what is readily seen in nature. Deuteronomy 4:29 proclaims, “But if from there you seek the LORD your God, you will find him if you look for him with all your heart and with all your soul.” This verse teaches an important principle: everyone who truly seeks after God will find Him. If a person truly desires to know God, God will make Himself known.

The Bible does not give any specific teaching on whether pets / animals have “souls” or whether pets / animals will be in heaven. However, we can take some general Scriptural principles and shed some light on the subject. The Bible states that both man (Genesis 2:7) and animals (Genesis 1:30; 6:17; 7:15,22) have the breath of life. The primary difference between human beings and animals is that man is made in the image and likeness of God (Genesis 1:26-27). Animals are not made in the image and likeness of God. Being made in the image and likeness of God means that human being are like God, capable of spirituality, with mind, emotion, and will - and - have an aspect of being that continues after death. If pets / animals do have a “soul” or immaterial aspect, it must therefore be of a different and lesser "quality." This difference probably means that pet / animal “souls” do not carry on after death. Another factor to consider in this question is that God did create animals as a part of His creative process in Genesis. God created the animals and said they were good (Genesis 1:25). Therefore, there is no reason why there could not be animals on the new earth (Revelation 21:1). There will most definitely be animals during the millennial kingdom (Isaiah 11:6; 65:25). It is impossible to say definitively whether some of these animals might be pets we had while here on earth. We do know that God is just and that when we get to Heaven we will find ourselves in complete agreement with His decision on this issue, whatever it may be.

10. Why do we pray to saints? I thought you should only pray to god, saints were just people, humans, why should they be prayed to?

I don't agree with praying to saints. Christianity is the relationship between a person and God. Once again, another reason you shouldn't be asking questions from the Catholic point of view.

11. why is god always portrayed with human form and is male? with such great power why not something of more of a force of nature or a ball of energy?

Ultimately, I do not think there is an answer to this question that we can truly comprehend. God is a spirit (John 4:24), and so His appearance is not like anything we can describe. Exodus 33:20 tells us, “But," he said, "you cannot see my face, for no one may see me and live.” We, as sinful human beings, are incapable of even seeing God in all His glory and living. His appearance is utterly unimaginable. Keep in mind, he is refered to as a human form because we are made in His image.

12. I think that the theory of gravity is just a myth... Its actually unmeasureable phlogistan that keeps everything 'glued' together... you cant dissprove the existance of soemthing unmeasurable so we should all believe this.

Whether you believe in phlogistons or gravity (or whichever is correct), God made it.

13. why cant you have sex before marriage? why cant condoms be distributed in Africa to keep the deaths from STDs to a minimum? Is this the word of god, or some sexually repressed and probably homophobic (because of homosexual desires he wished to keep repressed) man(men) from 2000 years ago? What kind of lvl of intimacy can you have with a person if you haven't ever really kissed then - yet you should pledge your life to them?

Along with all other kinds of sexual immorality, sex before marriage / premarital sex is repeatedly condemned in Scripture (Acts 15:20; Romans 1:29; 1 Corinthians 5:1; 6:13,18; 7:2; 10:8; 2 Corinthians 12:21; Galatians 5:19; Ephesians 5:3; Colossians 3:5; 1 Thessalonians 4:3; Jude 7). The Bible promotes abstinence before marriage. Sex before marriage is just as wrong as adultery and other forms of sexual immorality, because they all involve having sex with someone you are not married to. Sex between a husband and his wife is the only form of sexual relations that God approves of (Hebrews 13:4). Sex before marriage has become so common for many reasons. Far too often we focus on the “recreation” aspect of sex without recognizing the “re-creation” aspect. Yes, sex is pleasurable. God designed it that way. He wants men and women to enjoy sexual activity (within the confines of marriage). However, the primary purpose of sex is not pleasure, but rather reproduction. God does not outlaw sex before marriage to rob us of pleasure, but to protect us from unwanted pregnancies and children born to parents who do not want them or are not prepared for them. Imagine how much better our world would be if God’s pattern for sex was followed: fewer sexually transmitted diseases, fewer un-wed mothers, fewer unwanted pregnancies, fewer abortions, etc. Abstinence is God’s only policy when it comes to sex before marriage. Abstinence saves lives, protects babies, gives sexual relations the proper value, and most importantly honors God.

On a personal note, you shouldn't be marrying for sex anyhow.

14. the 3rd/4th commandment - Keep holy the Sabbath - It used to be Saturday, Moses held it on saturday, Jesus held it on saturday - why do Catholics have it on Sunday?? Our we breaking a commandment by keeping holy Sunday and not saturday now? Is this just another frail attempt to seperate themselves from their jewish cousins?

*NOTE*
Longest answer because this has been debated so much.

It is often claimed that "God instituted the Sabbath in Eden" because of the connection between the Sabbath and creation in Exodus 20:11. Although God's rest on the seventh day (Genesis 2:3) did foreshadow a future Sabbath law, there is no biblical record of the Sabbath before the children of Israel left the land of Egypt. Nowhere in Scripture is there any hint that Sabbath-keeping was practiced from Adam to Moses.

The Word of God makes it quite clear that Sabbath observance was a special sign between God and Israel: "And Moses went up to God, and the Lord called to him from the mountain, saying, "Thus you shall say to the house of Jacob, and tell the children of Israel: 'You have seen what I did to the Egyptians, and how I bore you on eagles' wings and brought you to Myself. Now therefore, if you will indeed obey My voice and keep My covenant, then you shall be a special treasure to Me above all people; for all the earth is Mine'" (Exodus 19:3–5).

“Therefore the children of Israel shall keep the Sabbath, to observe the Sabbath throughout their generations as a perpetual covenant. It is a sign between Me and the children of Israel forever; for in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, and on the seventh day He rested and was refreshed” (Exodus 31:16–17).

In Deuteronomy 5, Moses restates the ten commandments to the next generation of Israelites. Here, after commanding Sabbath observance in verses 12–14, Moses gives the reason the Sabbath was given to the nation Israel: "And remember that you were a slave in the land of Egypt, and the Lord your God brought you out from there by a mighty hand and by an outstretched arm; therefore the Lord your God commanded you to keep the Sabbath day" (Deuteronomy 5:15).

Notice the word therefore. God's intent for giving the Sabbath to Israel was not that they would remember creation, but that they would remember their Egyptian slavery and the Lord's deliverance. Note the requirements for Sabbath-keeping: A person placed under that Sabbath law could not leave his home on the Sabbath (Exodus 16:29), he could not build a fire (Exodus 35:3), and he could not cause anyone else to work (Deuteronomy 5:14). A person breaking the Sabbath law was to be put to death (Exodus 31:15; Numbers 15:32–35).

An examination of New Testament passages shows us four important points: 1) Whenever Christ appears in His resurrected form and the day is mentioned, it is always the first day of the week (Matthew 28:1, 9, 10; Mark 16:9; Luke 24:1, 13, 15; John 20:19, 26). 2) The only time the Sabbath is mentioned from Acts through Revelation it is for evangelistic purposes to the Jews and the setting is usually in a synagogue (Acts chapters 13–18). Paul wrote, "to the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might win Jews" (1 Corinthians 9:20). Paul did not go to the synagogue to fellowship with and edify the saints, but to convict and save the lost. 3) Once Paul states "from now on I will go to the Gentiles" (Acts 18:6), the Sabbath is never again mentioned. And 4) instead of suggesting adherence to the Sabbath day, the remainder of the New Testament implies the opposite (including the one exception to point 3 above, found in Colossians 2:16).

Looking more closely at point 4 above will reveal that there is no obligation for the New Testament believer to keep the Sabbath, and will also show that the idea of a Sunday "Christian Sabbath" is also unscriptural. As discussed above, there is one time the Sabbath is mentioned after Paul began to focus on the Gentiles, "So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or Sabbaths, which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ" (Colossians 2:16–17). The Jewish Sabbath was abolished at the cross where Christ "wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us" (Colossians 2:14).

This idea is repeated more than once in the New Testament: "One person esteems one day above another; another esteems every day alike. Let each be fully convinced in his own mind. He who observes the day, observes it to the Lord; and he who does not observe the day, to the Lord he does not observe it" (Romans 14:5–6a). "But now after you have known God, or rather are known by God, how is it that you turn again to the weak and beggarly elements, to which you desire again to be in bondage? You observe days and months and seasons and years" (Galatians 4:9–10).

But some claim that a mandate by Constantine in A.D. 321 "changed" the Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday. On what day did the early church meet for worship? Scripture never mentions any Sabbath (Saturday) gatherings by believers for fellowship or worship. However, there are clear passages that mention the first day of the week. For instance, Acts 20:7 states that "on the first day of the week the disciples came together to break bread." In 1 Corinthians 16:2 Paul urges the Corinthian believers "on the first day of the week let each one of you lay something aside, storing up as he may prosper." Since Paul designates this offering as "service" in 2 Corinthians 9:12, this collection must have been linked with the Sunday worship service of the Christian assembly. Historically Sunday, not Saturday, was the normal meeting day for Christians in the church, and its practice dates back to the first century.

The Sabbath was given to Israel, not the church. The Sabbath is still Saturday, not Sunday, and has never been changed. But the Sabbath is part of the Old Testament Law, and Christians are free from the bondage of the Law (Galatians 4:1-26; Romans 6:14). Sabbath keeping is not required of the Christian—be it Saturday or Sunday. The first day of the week, Sunday, the Lord's Day (Revelation 1:10) celebrates the New Creation, with Christ as our resurrected Head. We are not obligated to follow the Mosaic Sabbath—resting, but are now free to follow the risen Christ—serving. The Apostle Paul said that each individual Christian should decide whether to observe a Sabbath rest, “One man considers one day more sacred than another; another man considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind” (Romans 14:5). We are to worship God every day, not just on Saturday or Sunday.

[mikea454]

Burn. Anyway, I have a few comments.

As for 3 I believe the answer your looking for looks like this: God is the beginning. (first part of trinity) He created the universe and so on and so forth. After a period of time, mankind became wicked once again (after the flood). God doesn't like this cause he loves us. And since he loved us he sent part 2 of the trinity in a virgin vessel, Jesus. His life was devoted to giving us God's instructions and right the wrongs we were doing. Then came time to make the ultimate sacrifice, for him to give his life for billions and billions at the time and afterward. But we were worried because we loves us some Jesus. So, he leaves us with a solution, the Holy Ghost (or spirit). The third part of the trinity. He's going to stay here 'till Jesus gets back. Then the world will end and blah blah blah 1,000 year reign of Christ blah blah blah release of beast blah blah blah new heaven new earth blah blah everlasting peace.

I kinda like this explanation - between this and foameh I feel like I have a better grasp, but it stills seems a bit abstract

Bottom line: They are different entities, but they are ALL the SAME one God. He's good like that.

Additional Comment:
Question 5 I believe pertains to the 2nd coming of Christ.
That may be what christians believe, but Jews are still looking for the 1st coming of the Messiah / judgement day.

Additional Comment:
Question 13: Sex isn't evil, it was just meant for those married folk. God like it when 2 virgins marry. Why do you think there was the parable about the 10 virgins and the bridegroom. Mastur-bation as far as I know is good people, but fornication isn't taken lightly. There are also references to the "marriage bed". I hope I've adequately explained it. I feel confused myself. Maybe you can catch my drift.
Why just meant for married folk - and if two virgins marry, which one knows what to do? I know its not ok in the eyes of the church, what I dont believe is that God has something against premarital sex. Where does the word of God, not men, say this is not ok.


Additional Comment:
14 I believe actually depends on the country because in Latin countries the week starts with Monday, actually making the weekend the "Week End".

answers in bold

[mikea454]

I replied to all but the last two and I lost my answers.... starting again

I love your quotes, fantastic work on finding things relevant - A+

Christian, but I was raised Southern Baptist.


What do you mean "Where did it go"? It is stated that Christians are to have no gods and/or idols before God Himself.
yes, but it used to be no craven images, no idols, Jesus on a cross is a idol albeit God himself its still an idol and was forbidden under the original 10 commandments.

It is one God, only made up in three parts. All three are God, yet none of the three are the same. Take for instance an egg. You have the shell, the white, and the yolk, all 3 make up the egg, but all 3 are different from one another. Or, take a pizza: you have the crust, the sauce, and the cheese, all 3 make a pizza but are all different from one another.
I like this and brilliance's thoughts, but it still feels a bit abratct to me

We don't need a priest to do it now, you are basing this question off of the Catholic beliefs, which I don't believe would be smart if you knew anything about there religion (not implying you don't, I'm just not fond of their belief system and how it isn't in accordance with the Bible)
Of course I am basing this off catholics beliefs, I am catholic and my question is to other catholics, I want to know why we dont keep to the bible

Why would it? The world ends when God comes to earth. Jesus came because we were sinners and tried so many different ways to ask for forgiveness (slaughtering lambs). The purpose of Jesus coming to earth was to die, and when he died he took the sins of all mankind upon Him so that when we reach Judgment Day, we are forgiven as long as we recognize what Jesus did for us and believe it to be true.
"The world ends when God comes to earth" exactly... and if god is one in the same with Jesus shouldn't his coming be the end of the world? If the shell comes its ok, but if the yolk comes the world ends?

I don't see how the process of a crucifixtion should rattle your beliefs. But, I'm not sure so I'll have to research some. Other than that, I guess if they were wrong about the earth revolving around the sun (as was everyone else in the world) yet predicted where, when, and how (of a virgin) Jesus would be born isn't enough proof?
My point here is that the bible reflects the misconceptions of its writers.... misconceptions that were very common at the time, but a Mistake God would not make - see next question.

He doesn't hate homosexuals, he disapproves of their sexual choices. Proverbs 6:16-19 tells us, "There are six things the LORD hates, seven that are detestable to him: haughty eyes, a lying tongue, hands that shed innocent blood, a heart that devises wicked schemes, feet that are quick to rush into evil, a false witness who pours out lies and a man who stirs up dissension among brothers." Notice that homosexuality does not make this list. That does not mean that the Bible approves of homosexuality. The Bible consistently tells us that homosexuality is a sin (Genesis 19:1-13; Leviticus 18:22; Romans 1:26-27; 1 Corinthians 6:9). Homosexuality is described as an abomination. Romans 1:26-27 teaches explicitly that homosexuality is a result of a continual rebellion against God. When a person continues in disbelief, the Bible tells us that God “gives them over,” God allows them to experience their sinful desires and the resulting consequences. 1 Corinthians 6:9 proclaims that homosexuals will not inherit the kingdom of God. Homosexuality is immoral and unnatural. It is a perversion of the "natural order" and more importantly, God's view of sex.
Perhaps the world hate was a bit strong, but why do we think God sees homosexuality as an abomination. Is this really His will or the will of the writers, reflecting the sentiments of the time - repressed sexuality and fear of homosexuality?

The church is to teach Biblical doctrine so we can be grounded in our faith. Ephesians 4:14 tells us, “Then we will no longer be infants, tossed back and forth by the waves, and blown here and there by every wind of teaching and by the cunning and craftiness of men in their deceitful scheming.” The church is to be a place where believers can observe the Lord’s supper, remembering Christ’s death and shed blood on our behalf (1 Corinthians 11:23-26). The concept of “breaking bread” (Acts 2:42) also carries the idea of having meals together. This is another example of the church promoting fellowship. The final purpose of the church according to Acts 2:42 is prayer. The church is to be a place that promotes prayer, teaches prayer, and practices prayer. Philippians 4:6-7 encourages us, “Do not be anxious about anything, but in everything, by prayer and petition, with thanksgiving, present your requests to God. And the peace of God, which transcends all understanding, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus.”
I agree a meeting place to share ideas and further the teachings of God/Jesus is certinaly appropriate, but my question was more specifically, and again completely catholic centric - why the lavish churches. And I don't just mean the Cathedrals of the 12-15th centuray - but even new churches are built far more lavishes then is needed to spread the word of God.

All people are accountable to God whether they have “heard about Him” or not. The Bible tells us that God has clearly revealed Himself in nature (Romans 1:20) and in the hearts of people (Ecclesiastes 3:11). The problem is that the human race is sinful; we all reject this knowledge of God and rebel against Him (Romans 1:21-23). Apart from God's grace, God would give us over to the sinful desires of our hearts, allowing us to discover how useless and miserable life is apart from Him. This He does for those who reject Him (Romans 1:24-32). In reality, it is not that some people have not heard about God. Rather, the problem is that they have rejected what they have heard and what is readily seen in nature. Deuteronomy 4:29 proclaims, “But if from there you seek the LORD your God, you will find him if you look for him with all your heart and with all your soul.” This verse teaches an important principle: everyone who truly seeks after God will find Him. If a person truly desires to know God, God will make Himself known.
First I need a follow-up question from you - Do you believe Jews, muslims, all chirstians will sit side by side in the kingdom of heaven? Or do you beleive that the pearly gates only admit access to those of your faith?
If you believe all those who believe in a god and worship him, and lead good lifes are welcome - then your quotes are applicable and this question does not apply to you. BUT if you believe Jews are doomed to an eternity of suffering in the fiery pits of hell..... well then your quotes illustrate my concern. If God makes himself 'revealed in nature' how does that lead you to the 'correct' religion. Its all the same God. The latter belief I know is widely held and those are the people I want answers from. How is the Jewish belief in the same god with the same commandments not make a person worthy of heaven. The belief in Jesus (since he is the same as God) shold not be the determining factor.

The Bible does not give any specific teaching on whether pets / animals have “souls” or whether pets / animals will be in heaven. However, we can take some general Scriptural principles and shed some light on the subject. The Bible states that both man (Genesis 2:7) and animals (Genesis 1:30; 6:17; 7:15,22) have the breath of life. The primary difference between human beings and animals is that man is made in the image and likeness of God (Genesis 1:26-27). Animals are not made in the image and likeness of God. Being made in the image and likeness of God means that human being are like God, capable of spirituality, with mind, emotion, and will - and - have an aspect of being that continues after death. If pets / animals do have a “soul” or immaterial aspect, it must therefore be of a different and lesser "quality." This difference probably means that pet / animal “souls” do not carry on after death. Another factor to consider in this question is that God did create animals as a part of His creative process in Genesis. God created the animals and said they were good (Genesis 1:25). Therefore, there is no reason why there could not be animals on the new earth (Revelation 21:1). There will most definitely be animals during the millennial kingdom (Isaiah 11:6; 65:25). It is impossible to say definitively whether some of these animals might be pets we had while here on earth. We do know that God is just and that when we get to Heaven we will find ourselves in complete agreement with His decision on this issue, whatever it may be.
Im sure God's decision is just, but the belief that animals are 'souless' is not necessarily the belief of God Himself. Do you believe in Evolution? if so than where do you draw the line for humans? chimps? australupithecus africanus? australapithicus Robustus? Homo erectus? or modern man - homo sapiens sapiens? Even if you believe in 'Intelligent design' where along 'god's design' do animals get souls?

I don't agree with praying to saints. Christianity is the relationship between a person and God. Once again, another reason you shouldn't be asking questions from the Catholic point of view.
I dont either, but being catholic I am questioning other catholics - why is this practice acceptable, because the bible suggests to me this is not.

Ultimately, I do not think there is an answer to this question that we can truly comprehend. God is a spirit (John 4:24), and so His appearance is not like anything we can describe. Exodus 33:20 tells us, “But," he said, "you cannot see my face, for no one may see me and live.” We, as sinful human beings, are incapable of even seeing God in all His glory and living. His appearance is utterly unimaginable. Keep in mind, he is refered to as a human form because we are made in His image.
Interesting answer... but my point that the bible was written by man (men specifically) and not by the hand of God is what I was getting at. Thefore the words of the bible are influenced by its writers and carry with it their superstitions/misconceptions/sexism/racism.

Whether you believe in phlogistons or gravity (or whichever is correct), God made it.
Fair enough - thiswas just a cheap shot at creationsim and doesn't really deserve legimate attention


Along with all other kinds of sexual immorality, sex before marriage / premarital sex is repeatedly condemned in Scripture (Acts 15:20; Romans 1:29; 1 Corinthians 5:1; 6:13,18; 7:2; 10:8; 2 Corinthians 12:21; Galatians 5:19; Ephesians 5:3; Colossians 3:5; 1 Thessalonians 4:3; Jude 7). The Bible promotes abstinence before marriage. Sex before marriage is just as wrong as adultery and other forms of sexual immorality, because they all involve having sex with someone you are not married to. Sex between a husband and his wife is the only form of sexual relations that God approves of (Hebrews 13:4). Sex before marriage has become so common for many reasons. Far too often we focus on the “recreation” aspect of sex without recognizing the “re-creation” aspect. Yes, sex is pleasurable. God designed it that way. He wants men and women to enjoy sexual activity (within the confines of marriage). However, the primary purpose of sex is not pleasure, but rather reproduction. God does not outlaw sex before marriage to rob us of pleasure, but to protect us from unwanted pregnancies and children born to parents who do not want them or are not prepared for them. Imagine how much better our world would be if God’s pattern for sex was followed: fewer sexually transmitted diseases, fewer un-wed mothers, fewer unwanted pregnancies, fewer abortions, etc. Abstinence is God’s only policy when it comes to sex before marriage. Abstinence saves lives, protects babies, gives sexual relations the proper value, and most importantly honors God.
Why is premarital sex immoral, is this in the eyes of God or the writers of the Bible? and if God's purpose is to protect us, then why does the catholic church forbid the distrubution of condoms? condoms do all of these things also! and the argument that condoms will incresae wanton sex may hold some water in the US or Europe (although I disagree), but in AFrica or Indian clearly they are having premariatal sex anyway so why cant we protect them? When did God say sex should be limited to the confines of marriage? animals seem to do just fine without marriage - then again perhaps they are souless. Marriage is an institution invented by man and in the history of life on this planet is a very recent institution. Is it really God's will that life should only continue through marriage, or is it the ideas of the men writing it?

On a personal note, you shouldn't be marrying for sex anyhow.
not sure what this addresses? - I know people who do this because they can't have premariatal sex. I think this is why some of the more extreme sides of religious groups get married earlier - orthodox, and some christians

Answers in bold
As for the sabbath:
It was and still is a commandment to Keep holy the Holy day, its just silly for us to have changed the holy day. we were not asked to do this - God has not changed his mind. I think we just wanted a different Holy day, Constantine wanted seperation between jews and Romans. I will have to think more about what you have said... its quite a bit to process

[A.D.]

What are you talking about Mike?


Anyways, I'm religous to a point. I don't go to a church, and I can't say I've ever read thoroughly into the bible. My family is very much catholic though my father sort of branched away and I'm rather thankful as such.

It's been said before that there is a "God of Gaps"
Meaning, the more we know about the world in a scientific aspect the less we use god to explain such things. I don't believe in mircales, I don't believe in using religion as a crutch to get you through things.

I'm a strong believer in Darwinism, and I think it was a mistake for the Vatacan to completely discard his studies. I use science to understand the workings of the universe, and I use religion to explain the spirtiual workings. I don't think we'll ever be able to explain why we are here and what the answer is to (as Douglas Adams put it) life, the universe, and everything.

The bible has strong morals and I do think church orginzations are for the most part good (badapples aside) I mean look at the Mormons, sure they are kinda wierd but all of their cities are very clean and crime free..

But the bible was written years ago, and alot of it's texts are vauge and archaic, open to interpertation and can bet twisted in any which way to support religious points. The morals it imparts are good but very much outdated in some aspects, I'd almost go as far as to say adhereing strictly to it is social suicide.

[hellsing293]

1. was baptised(sp?) christian but ofcourse i didn't have a choice. I don't believe in christianity(fallen from grace). So Atheist.

If god created the universe, who created god? and the bible goes against the theory of evolution. You can't tell me there's no proof that we evolved. Which means we weren't created in gods image. If we can evolved we can evolve out of god's image too.

8. We need churches to be lead in prayer by the priest. Muslims pray to themselves though and lead themselves in prayer i know that. As for cathedrals, to display the power and influence of christianity.

Have you guys ever heard of the book of enoch(e-knock). Talks about angels coming to earth(the fallen angels) have sex with human women and them giving berth to giants. Along with angels teaching humans forbidden enchantments etc. Then god casting all the fallen angels into a fiery pit(aka hell). You can't tell me you honestly belive this. This was what also lead to women traditionally in some religions covering their hair, so angels won't be tempted.

idk its just too far fetched for me. I rather live my life without wasting time prayer to god then living it in delusion hoping that when i die i'll be taken to some perfect kindom of god.

Also, i believe religion was just an old idea to escape the fear of death. think about it, once you die don't worry, because you'll go to heaven if you weren't a sinner. Which also encourages people not sinning. So religion was good for maintaining a peacfull society but lead people in delusion.

Beliefs which tell you which way you should lead you life but not preaching about a god are called philosifys(sp again?). Look at taoism, he spread good teachings about life etc yet he's not credited like jesus is. For all we know, they're both humans(so don't say well jesus was the son of god). some parts are just too sketchy for me.

oh yeah. and no sex before marriage because priests can't have sex. They can't because they can't get marriaged and they can't have sex before marriage without sinner. guess they found loopholes as from the new lol O_O. and all the others reasons stated previously.

[mikea454]

What are you talking about Mike?

in reference to?? and what on earth are you talking about? mormons?
I agree somewhat with your points of view, partially why I posed said questions, I know many people who believe such things but cant tell me why... all I get is some regurtitated half-assed answer, like "Just accept jesus into your heart, he died for your sins" and "are you 100% sure your going to heaven?" or "If you haven't accepted Jesus your can't go to Heaven". I want to know why.... Im looking for someone religious who has examined their religion and come to a logical conclusion on the side of religion (I don't mean faith I mean religion).


Additional Comment:

1. was baptised(sp?) christian but ofcourse i didn't have a choice. I don't believe in christianity(fallen from grace). So Atheist.

If god created the universe, who created god? and the bible goes against the theory of evolution. You can't tell me there's no proof that we evolved. Which means we weren't created in gods image. If we can evolved we can evolve out of god's image too.

8. We need churches to be lead in prayer by the priest. Muslims pray to themselves though and lead themselves in prayer i know that. As for cathedrals, to display the power and influence of christianity.

Why do we have to demonstrate the power/influence of christianity - I know thats what is being done, but this isn't the point of religion is it? Is it accepetable for this to be a major focus of the churches time/resources?

Have you guys ever heard of the book of enoch(e-knock). Talks about angels coming to earth(the fallen angels) have sex with human women and them giving berth to giants. Along with angels teaching humans forbidden enchantments etc. Then god casting all the fallen angels into a fiery pit(aka hell). You can't tell me you honestly belive this. This was what also lead to women traditionally in some religions covering their hair, so angels won't be tempted.

idk its just too far fetched for me. I rather live my life without wasting time prayer to god then living it in delusion hoping that when i die i'll be taken to some perfect kindom of god.

I have no idea what you are talking about - who wrote this book, is it some lunatic, this couldn't possible be part of anything legimate, and is certainly not in the bible.

Also, i believe religion was just an old idea to escape the fear of death. think about it, once you die don't worry, because you'll go to heaven if you weren't a sinner. Which also encourages people not sinning. So religion was good for maintaining a peacfull society but lead people in delusion.

Partially agree, part of the reason for my questions...

Beliefs which tell you which way you should lead you life but not preaching about a god are called philosifys(sp again?). Look at taoism, he spread good teachings about life etc yet he's not credited like jesus is. For all we know, they're both humans(so don't say well jesus was the son of god). some parts are just too sketchy for me.


oh yeah. and no sex before marriage because priests can't have sex. They can't because they can't get marriaged and they can't have sex before marriage without sinner. guess they found loopholes as from the new lol O_O. and all the others reasons stated previously.

What? marriage for priests? Im sorry Im having trouble following your logic, if this is logic and not banter

(answers in bold - to much work to keep making and breaking quotes)

[hellsing293]

the book i was talking about, is/was a religous book for christianity. they banned it from the bible later in history i think. but that is part of the book and it does contain christianity followings/teachings in it.

and no sex before marriage so preists can't have sex because they can't marry. Also what was said before.

and you need to demonstrate power/influence to convert/influence more people to christianty(in essence save their souls). sry if it was a bit hard to read the first time.

**Also not quoting because firefox doesn't let me cp on this site for some reason and i don't feel like using ie**