Harry Potter

[FraterPerdurabo]

abd i'm still waiting on frater's description of an adult book -.-

My time is 8 hours different to Yours. I'm not online together with You guys.

Now, back to the topic. What would I consider an adults' book, or what would i consider a children's book. Primarily, I don't think that it's a children's book, just because it's a fable. I've read many fables and fictional stories, surrealism close to which Harry Potter could never get. The difference is that in what I've read, there is a parallel brought together with something, everything is symbolic. For example, I have extensively read the stories of Chehov (a Russian/Jewish writer). Unforunately, I don't speak Russian, so I read them in Estonian and English. The main themes in his books are insanity, the society's response to it, and criticism of the society overall, during the Tsarist regime. His books were used as propaganda during the Soviet era, because when evaluated, they were full of deep, serious criticism of the Tsarist regime. On the other hand, there is another Russian author, called Bulgakov, who used to write completely surreal stories and plays about the Soviet regime. His books were personally banned by Stalin. In those books, there is something more than just the usual fairy tale. I suggest that You read a serious book once in a while as well...

Harry Potter is just an entertaining fairy tale, with no meaning behind it. Just because it has death and sadness in it doesn't mean it's an adult's book. It is for children.

[Aemaeth]

And as i said, it has parts which both can enjoy, something you either aren't seeing in the thread or you just think it isn't for both.

Now, back to the topic. What would I consider an adults' book, or what would i consider a children's book. Primarily, I don't think that it's a children's book, just because it's a fable. I've read many fables and fictional stories, surrealism close to which Harry Potter could never get. The difference is that in what I've read, there is a parallel brought together with something, everything is symbolic. For example, I have extensively read the stories of Chehov (a Russian/Jewish writer). Unforunately, I don't speak Russian, so I read them in Estonian and English. The main themes in his books are insanity, the society's response to it, and criticism of the society overall, during the Tsarist regime. His books were used as propaganda during the Soviet era, because when evaluated, they were full of deep, serious criticism of the Tsarist regime. On the other hand, there is another Russian author, called Bulgakov, who used to write completely surreal stories and plays about the Soviet regime. His books were personally banned by Stalin. In those books, there is something more than just the usual fairy tale. I suggest that You read a serious book once in a while as well...

It isn't just surrealism that defines an adult book.
And so because its fictional, you say it isn't serious? I feel that it has some very serious tones in it, Usualy kids books don't have murder, violence and predujice in them. Harry potter does, and it teaches children and adults about it, something which i would consider serious.

[Fuggle]

And as i said, it has parts which both can enjoy, something you either aren't seeing in the thread or you just think it isn't for both.


It isn't just surrealism that defines an adult book.
And so because its fictional, you say it isn't serious? I feel that it has some very serious tones in it, Usualy kids books don't have murder, violence and predujice in them. Harry potter does, and it teaches children and adults about it, something which i would consider serious.

*Cough* The 3 Little Pigs, 2 of the pigs die off. *Cough* Little Red riding hood, grandma is eaten, than wolf is killed... Don't make me start breaking down childrens books, they all have their own flaws that can make the kid evil. You just need to think a little bit.

[FraterPerdurabo]

And as i said, it has parts which both can enjoy, something you either aren't seeing in the thread or you just think it isn't for both.


It isn't just surrealism that defines an adult book.
And so because its fictional, you say it isn't serious? I feel that it has some very serious tones in it, Usualy kids books don't have murder, violence and predujice in them. Harry potter does, and it teaches children and adults about it, something which i would consider serious.

Nah, I read the 1st three Harry Potter books when I was like 14, and I did enjoy them. However, if I read them now, it wouldn't appeal to me at all, especially because I've read books that are so much better.
I'm not saying that it's surrealism that defines an adult book, after all there is surrealism in Harry Potter too. What I'm saying is that the books that I brought as examples (Cronica de una muerte anunciada by Gabriel Garcia Marquez, Master and Margarita by Mikhail Bulgakov, The Nose by Gogol, etc) elements, such as surrealism are used as illustrating examples of real life problems. The author has expressed something that is very real to every one of us in an absurd story.

This is just one element that I find important in adult books. On the other hand, look at "Animal Farm" by George Orwell. You could tell it to children as a bedtime story, and they would understand it differently than an adult that grew up during the existance of the Soviet Union and practise of socialism.

Oh, and children's books do have death, murder etc. in them. Many fables are hundreds of years old. Back then people would die off like flies. It is only nowadays that we take things such as sanitation and medicine for granted. Death did not shock people a hundred years ago.

[Beholder99]

ok, maybe if you read them now instead of just reading one you would see the values. you only read a sixth of the whole. harry potter does inspire thought, and it does make you question your value. the point of any book is to make you look from the outside in. harry potter does do that. it makes you forget about your life and it throws you into a new one, one where all your imaginations can run wild. the problem with adults is that they are to keen on what an adult should be, adults are suppose to be serious and stern and mature. thats not what adults are supposed to be, sure you get a few that are like that, but look at them, they have no personality, they are efficent, boring and nobody likes them but people that are the same way. books like harry potter is a reality check. it makes adults realize that they dont have to become their stereotype.( i had a more solid point but my father and sister are arguing and i lost it my bad ill try to recover it)

[FraterPerdurabo]

ok, maybe if you read them now instead of just reading one you would see the values. you only read a sixth of the whole.

A sixth? I thought that there were like 5? I read the first 3.

harry potter does inspire thought, and it does make you question your value. the point of any book is to make you look from the outside in. harry potter does do that. it makes you forget about your life and it throws you into a new one, one where all your imaginations can run wild.

Nah, You're wrong. That's not the point of every book.

the problem with adults is that they are to keen on what an adult should be, adults are suppose to be serious and stern and mature. thats not what adults are supposed to be, sure you get a few that are like that, but look at them, they have no personality, they are efficent, boring and nobody likes them but people that are the same way. books like harry potter is a reality check. it makes adults realize that they dont have to become their stereotype.

I disagree. I'm am not stereotypeing any "adult". Adulthood is the termin for anybody that :

1) reaches the legal age
2) has a fully grown body and organism

You cannot stereotype all people between 18 and, let's say 50. Your arguements sounds like:
people that read Harry Potter = interesting, diverse and flexible
people that don't read Harry Potter = boring, no personality

Essentially, You just read what You enjoy, it's Your own decision, however I do still believe that Harry Potter is very shallow compared to what a person could be reading at their age.
I remember when I first picked up "The Trial' by Franz Kafka, it was about 03:00 a.m. and I couldn't put it down before 08:00, when I literally just fell asleep. I finished the book when I woke up. Just recently, I reread it, once again, in 2 similar sessions. That book was worth the time, when I look back at reading Harry Potter, I don't recall similar feelings to a book.

EDIT: I was speaking to my brother last night on MSN, and told him to have a look at the thread. That's his reaction:

[Cheeryqueen]

The Harry Potter series is for anyone. Kids can read it, by the time they can read to that level they can understand what is going on in the book and except it.

[DaCougarMech]

imo, harry potter is written as a children's book but its background and themes can only be understood by someone who has a knowledge of that subject

a child who has grown up in the suburbs all his life with the perfect family would read harry potter as another story while perhaps a child from the ghetto who has lost one or both of his parents may see the story on a different level. it says something different to every person is my point

[Cheeryqueen]

Yes it does, but what does that have to do with whether it is a child's book or not?

[DaCougarMech]

ah i seem to have left that out
in short, i don't believe in such classifications but if necessary, more mature themes should be adult while innocent themes should be for children though i believe children to be grossly underestimated most of the time

[FraterPerdurabo]

ah i seem to have left that out
in short, i don't believe in such classifications but if necessary, more mature themes should be adult while innocent themes should be for children though i believe children to be grossly underestimated most of the time

I still don't see any *mature* themes in Harry Potter. But anyone is welcome to read whatever floats their boat.