Michael Vick... What is a man?

[slashbomb]

Yea, you can go catch fish, hunt for turkeys, deer, etc. if you have a license. If not, you will be fined if you break the rules. Technically, there is no license for dog fighting but based on the evidence, Vick planned these dog fights where people bet's $ on them.

If the dogs got loose and fought another dog for no reason (w/o supervision), it wouldn't matter because that is like a accident and charges would be less for the victim and the owner would have to restrain their pet. But since Vick planned this so called operation, it is illegal and he should of gotten more sentencing for animal cruelty and gambling.

[Blue]

Let me ask you this, how come **** Chenney can shoot wild game while Michael Vick cannot hurt pitbulls. I know that what Michael Vick did is really wrong, but how come hunters do not get jail time for hurting innocent wild animals

How about this. Food?
There was no logical reason for torturing pitbulls except maybe cruel entertainment and cash. Why do we hunt, well maybe theres a little entertainment, but its a different type more related to sport and because of food.

[Metalhead Steve]

i do not know what the sentencing guidelines are for cases like these, and in no way do i condone what he did. but for those saying that he deserves to be shot or raped, think about who is the less of a man. you are. you want worse than what he did to animals done to him? that is despicable.

Rape is worse than torture and death? Being shot and instantly killed is worse than torture to death? Wow, I must have missed something.

[BrioCloud]

Michael Vick definitely made an awful choice and was an embarrassment to the Nfl. However I'm sure hes not the only one that is doing these cruel things to animals. We should look down apon all the individuals who chose this kind of paths, and not just put only Michael Vick in the spotlight.

[Metalhead Steve]

Michael Vick definitely made an awful choice and was an embarrassment to the Nfl. However I'm sure hes not the only one that is doing these cruel things to animals. We should look down apon all the individuals who chose this kind of paths, and not just put only Michael Vick in the spotlight.

As always very insightful Kaze. Anyone who chooses his path and chooses to do what he did deserves this though. This is just the most publicized case.

[Daddy_XL]

Did he even get a charge or time for the gambling aspect of it? Have to pay fines or financial contributions to some animal organization for some kind of retribution?

[The Mob]

It's despicable? You know many of those dog fights are to the death? So, he did in fact cause the death of many of those animals and specifically trained them to be killers. You're trying to pull one of these, "man is the real monster" kind of deals and you're failing miserably. This isn't King Kong...this is a poor excuse for a human being taking advantage of suffering.

Saying that what we would like to do to Vick is like saying that people who keep others as slaves should only get a slap on the wrist. If someone took in a human being and tortured them and even made them fight for their lives against other slaves, would he warrant the death penalty? I'm sure you'd have a difference of opinion since those are humans being used like that. It's this double standard bull shit that makes me hate having debates with people like this.

but you have some how proved my point (even though i did not imply that).. that man is the real monster. who is forcing dogs to fight to the death? we are.

as for the double standard, i stand by it. there should be one. dont get me wrong, torturing dogs for pleasure is seriously messed up. but you really cant apply the same sentences to what a human does to another human. they are two entirely different cases. a human torturing and killing other human should be dealt with in the harshest way possible. but a dog is lesser than a human.

that is the reason why we hunt too. b/c we have accepted that the animals we kill are not of the same worth as humans. and not to mention that we have done it for thousands of years, so it has been accepted throughout the ages.

[Metalhead Steve]

as for the double standard, i stand by it. there should be one. dont get me wrong, torturing dogs for pleasure is seriously messed up. but you really cant apply the same sentences to what a human does to another human. they are two entirely different cases. a human torturing and killing other human should be dealt with in the harshest way possible. but a dog is lesser than a human.

that is the reason why we hunt too. b/c we have accepted that the animals we kill are not of the same worth as humans. and not to mention that we have done it for thousands of years, so it has been accepted throughout the ages.

The reason we hunt and kill animals is not because they lesser than us or that the earth belongs more to us than them but because we are higher on the food chain. It is just survival. I do not think lesser of an animal just because it is not as intelligent as me. Every carnivore on the planet does the same thing. Some people do it for sport but I get nothing from that.

Torturing an animal is the same as torturing a human, you are torturing a living being.

On the subject on we treat animals as lesser beings than ourselves... Why do we keep them around and take care of them? Why are they our companions? Why do we let them in our lives and domesticate them? There is a mutual gain for us and the animal. They get a home, food, and affection. They give us another "member" of the family. It is obvious we put them on our level.

[The Mob]

this is all a matter of lexicon now. yes of course we as humans love and treat with respect our pets. i love animals myself. im just saying that you should not kill another human just b/c they killed an animal. that is going to far.

an animal will never equal a human being. your correct that your torturing a living thing, but that is as far as you can you. animals are not human.

[Arc]

this is all a matter of lexicon now. yes of course we as humans love and treat with respect our pets. i love animals myself. im just saying that you should not kill another human just b/c they killed an animal. that is going to far.

an animal will never equal a human being. your correct that your torturing a living thing, but that is as far as you can you. animals are not human.

look at it this way, he trained those dogs to fight to the death and kill each other, were saying he should be shot because he bred the dogs trained them to fight and got them to kill each other which is sick and twisted. what happens when he gets bored of the dogs? is he going to move on to humans?

[Metalhead Steve]

look at it this way, he trained those dogs to fight to the death and kill each other, were saying he should be shot because he bred the dogs trained them to fight and got them to kill each other which is sick and twisted. what happens when he gets bored of the dogs? is he going to move on to humans?

You make an interesting point here... I am sure there are markets for this out of country.

[slashbomb]

look at it this way, he trained those dogs to fight to the death and kill each other, were saying he should be shot because he bred the dogs trained them to fight and got them to kill each other which is sick and twisted. what happens when he gets bored of the dogs? is he going to move on to humans?

i agree as well. this is a good point. if he cant kill dogs, what will he do? football but if hes banned from football, what will he do?

[Blue]

but you have some how proved my point (even though i did not imply that).. that man is the real monster. who is forcing dogs to fight to the death? we are.

as for the double standard, i stand by it. there should be one. dont get me wrong, torturing dogs for pleasure is seriously messed up. but you really cant apply the same sentences to what a human does to another human. they are two entirely different cases. a human torturing and killing other human should be dealt with in the harshest way possible. but a dog is lesser than a human.

that is the reason why we hunt too. b/c we have accepted that the animals we kill are not of the same worth as humans. and not to mention that we have done it for thousands of years, so it has been accepted throughout the ages.

You like completely ignored my statement. We hunt for food and accomplishment. Even if we think we are better than animals, the process of hunting is putting ourselves on animals level so much that that doesnt even count.

[Daddy_XL]

as for the double standard, i stand by it. there should be one. dont get me wrong, torturing dogs for pleasure is seriously messed up. but you really cant apply the same sentences to what a human does to another human. they are two entirely different cases. a human torturing and killing other human should be dealt with in the harshest way possible. but a dog is lesser than a human.

Okay not just killing the dogs but torturing them is sadistic and pathalogically cruel. So what if he gets bored with it and moves on to other things, or yet just snaps and his next victim happens to be a human as Arcs said. Maybe it's someone you know or maybe it's not. Does that change your outlook some?The man is obviously messed up in the head. He's been to some of the best seminars in the world for successful persons and look what path he chose to follow.

As far as equal or unequal well it simply is equal now a days with the Human Society n all. A dog is above a lab rat or mouse in the food chain and should be respected and treated as such. The torturing part of it is actually worse than it reads. It only happened to the dogs who lost the fight. Most were injured or needed lots of treatment in the first place. It's not like he did this to the healthy champion or puppies of the champs litter. I do understand that dog fights happen in 3rd world countries like snake fights or **** fights. But last time I checked we have laws against this, are not a poverty stricken by plague like health issues needing help from the world, and have an education system thats ranked pretty high.

[SpoonMan999]

but you have some how proved my point (even though i did not imply that).. that man is the real monster. who is forcing dogs to fight to the death? we are.

as for the double standard, i stand by it. there should be one. dont get me wrong, torturing dogs for pleasure is seriously messed up. but you really cant apply the same sentences to what a human does to another human. they are two entirely different cases. a human torturing and killing other human should be dealt with in the harshest way possible. but a dog is lesser than a human.

that is the reason why we hunt too. b/c we have accepted that the animals we kill are not of the same worth as humans. and not to mention that we have done it for thousands of years, so it has been accepted throughout the ages.

Way to not understand and pretend our misunderstanding was you being deep. Your point wasn't "man is the real monster" I said you were attempting to make a similar statement. And you stand by your double standard? You admit it's a double standard? So you admit it's flawed? You're an idiot. Double standard typically means they're contradicting. Why don't you go take some courses in debate and come back and see me.

Dogs = living creatures that feel pain and emotion
Humans = living creatures that feel pain and emotion

A dog can be distraught and feel abused just as a human can, but unfortunately a dog isn't smart enough to realize this isn't the way it should be. A dog doesn't have much power to change it's situation. This is just as bad as brain washing children and having them kill others for your own gain.

[The Mob]

well then, im sure that youll agree that boxing, wrestling, or anything of that sort is on that same level, minus of course the killing. the problem is that that is already happening to humans. all of those boxers and wrestlers, they are causing pain.. because they have to. the system is forcing them to in order to make a living.

and i still stand by that dogs, or animals for that matter should never have complete equal rights as humans. yes they must to be treated with respect, but they can never equal what a human is worth. i agree with your definition of dogs=living creatures that feel pain and emotion. but can they ever replace what a human is? the resounding answer is no.

this is all a matter of prospective too. the topic of dogs is especially charged. i understand why there is such an outcry, b/c the dog is man's best friend. im sure that if it were anything else, such as maybe ****(rooster) (they blocked co ck. heh) fighting, there would not be such an issue.

[slashbomb]

well then, im sure that youll agree that boxing, wrestling, or anything of that sort is on that same level, minus of course the killing. the problem is that that is already happening to humans. all of those boxers and wrestlers, they are causing pain.. because they have to. the system is forcing them to in order to make a living.

and i still stand by that dogs, or animals for that matter should never have complete equal rights as humans. yes they must to be treated with respect, but they can never equal what a human is worth. i agree with your definition of dogs=living creatures that feel pain and emotion. but can they ever replace what a human is? the resounding answer is no.

this is all a matter of prospective too. the topic of dogs is especially charged. i understand why there is such an outcry, b/c the dog is man's best friend. im sure that if it were anything else, such as maybe **** fighting, there would not be such an issue.

Good point. And this relates to violence because the q is can it be good as well? In boxing, wrestling, etc., those sorts of things is for entertaining fans and for the people who do these sports to prove themselves in the ring. But when it comes to animals, they should be treated with respect because us humans mainly use them as caring pets. If we couldn't have pets such as dogs, that could impact the world greatly.

[Metalhead Steve]

People who box, wrestle, and compete in MMA do so by choice. These dogs did not have a choice to jump in the ring or not. That point is pretty moot in my eyes.

[SpoonMan999]

well then, im sure that youll agree that boxing, wrestling, or anything of that sort is on that same level, minus of course the killing. the problem is that that is already happening to humans. all of those boxers and wrestlers, they are causing pain.. because they have to. the system is forcing them to in order to make a living.

and i still stand by that dogs, or animals for that matter should never have complete equal rights as humans. yes they must to be treated with respect, but they can never equal what a human is worth. i agree with your definition of dogs=living creatures that feel pain and emotion. but can they ever replace what a human is? the resounding answer is no.

this is all a matter of prospective too. the topic of dogs is especially charged. i understand why there is such an outcry, b/c the dog is man's best friend. im sure that if it were anything else, such as maybe ****(rooster) (they blocked co ck. heh) fighting, there would not be such an issue.

Boxing, wrestling, etc... are very different from dog fights because these people CHOSE to walk down that path. The dogs had no choice in the matter. And don't tell me society forces them to so they can make a living because that's bullshit, they made their choice nobody made it for them. If they were somehow forced into something because of a bet or a debt owed then again it's their fault for being in that situation.

This is about free will, if a man was involved in a fight to the death and both men had said it was ok and agreed to it then I would have no issue. When you do something like train a dog to fight you're taking away the free will from that creature and everyone deserves the right to make their own choices, no matter how stupid the choices some people make can be.

Oh and let me go back to my nitpicking habits here for a bit;

this is all a matter of prospective too.

Prospective - relating to or effective in the future

Now I think you meant to say perspective there. Please take an English course along with that debate course I recommended earlier.

[The Mob]

nobody should be forced to fight for their own freedom from debt. and not all people choose to be a fighter. while most debts are due to irresponsibility, some other people must fight or steal to free themselves from it. that represents a broken system. some people are born into debt, and the only way they see out is to fight.