Last night's C-Span

[Mozzy]

well i'm so sorry for putting you out. expecting you to READ in an all txt forum. god forgive me. besides. almost deadly specifically challenged me and due to the nature of this thread i decided it was worthwhile to do so.

the day blizz decides to make this a 3d virtual reality forum where we can all get blown by hillary clinton i will understand your pain.

[A.D.]

Good god Mozzy, coming after me with a passion.

I've been over this in different threads, and it feels much akin to kicking a dead horse, given how most sensible people realize that the truth provides answers. You can pick through the article that provided and keep saying why why why but you don't have any answers of your own. Oh I'm sure you can drum up some insurance-war-oil-antibush jargon as to why.

But I'll humor you seeing as how you've waved aside all these rational arguements with vauge open questions..

1. The pods. I hadn't heard anything about these either, but if you check the date on the articles you'll see it was fairly early, which leads me to believe it was some wild theory that was shot down by plainly obvious logic long ago.

2. Only 14 jets. Most people think we have fighter jets flying 24/7 by the dozen but there are really only 14 jets designated to take off and defend ourselves from outside threats. The time scale between when we knew the jets were hijacked to when they hit is rather small, inside half an hour. Not enough time. As for not be able to find the flights, well, you sort of answered your own question. Radar picks up nonspecific blips, so any aircraft anywhere will come up on radar. Not to mention the planes were flying low around the city and most radar has to clear ground obsticles. Even if NORAD had radar it wouldn't make a damn bit of difference, the transponders were shut off, so even if they picked it up on radar without a real visiual it could have been anything.

2b. If you read the article thoroughly, Pane Steward's plane was intercepted becuase it was incorrectly identified as a hijacked flight.

3. What are you talking about, in a timely way? And anyone knows that WIND actually makes fires HOTTER becuase it introduces more oxygen.

3b.. Again, I'm not sure what you are rambling about. People say there were charges placed that went off while the building was falling, and these charges blew crap out into the air. I'm not sure if you are argueing for the case of the conspiracists, or against....

4. Again you didn't read WTC7's collapse in full. It fell becuase of internal fires, and very much for the same reason the twin towers did... The heated steel weakened enough to where it wouldn't support the load, paired with the unusual structural design of WT7.. And it did take time for WT7 to collapse, WTC7 took seven hours to fall after the twin towers did JESUS man

And then you didn't even bother after that. I think I see where all these wild theories come from. People not understanding or misinterpeting what really happened. You rise arguements against what's said with no factual basis. Anytime something comes along that threatens to debunk your silly little beliefs you get frusterated and swear it off as close-minded jargon. You're closed minded. You see this crap crop up on the news from time to time, but fortunately most news orgnizations have sense enough not to pay these theories too much attention and not give them much air-time.

So C-Span has a blurb about it and you wet yourself in glee. And you hoped this forum would be filled a bunch of like-minded dolts that can stomach this 'fight big brother' dirreah. Well it's not, and most our more reputable memebers knew to stay away from this old, tired topic (admittedly, I probably should have paid no attention to it either). Anyways, I've said what I had to say, I'm not going to waste anymore time on these OMG WAROIL9/11CONSPIRACY GG threads...

[xDBD]

>You act like I personaly attacked you, making these comments about being a hippy as if I accused you of such.

Not by you, but people have simply responded to my posts with things like "fxcking junky."

--

I just find it hard to believe that people will pass off an idea that has such intensity as this one as total shit, even though there is an EQUAL amount of evidence on the opposite side. The conspiracy sources are different than yours; you aren't going to see them on TV. You wouldn't hear about Bush & Kerry and their real relationship, or Skull and Bones on TV. This is almost taboo for mainstream media; nobody will touch it.

That still doesn't de-credit the experts that came to the conclusions they did for people like Alex Jones.

I've said a few times I don't know what the hell went down, I just know where I lean. I do know that, despite who did this and how it happened, that the effects it created, no matter how horrible the event, reach far beyond people just dying and consequently us going to war.

[Mozzy]

almost deadly are you blind or what? you obviously can't read if you can't see the points i made.

1. shot down early or not it still supports the govt, not the conspiracists. you apparently chose to ignore that.

2. intercepted because it was thought to be a hijacked jet. again, you're too ignorant to notice the implication this makes. how, i don't know.

3, i said noting about the fires, i was talking about the steel, and i doubt wind would make that hotter. by timely manner i meant all the steal magically breaking at the same instant. that is impossible. you are blind.

3b, i don't know wht you mean either, but if PM is correct each floor should spew debree as a result. you obviously havent read anythign i wrote.

4. neither wtc7, NOR ANY STEEL BUILDING IN EXISTENCE, has collapsed as a result of internal fires. and by time i mean a matter of seconds. as in, one side of the building (the damaged side) would fall slightly sooner than the non damaged side. a mongrel could grasp this concept. the buildign fell together, orchestrated like an opera. the weight shifts and trusses are a SAFETY FEATURE!!! my brother is an architect but that hardly matters because a fool could understand that saftey features are designed TO HELP, NOT TO MAKE THINGS WORSE. LET ME SPELL IT OUT FOR YOU. A SAFETY FEATURE WOULD NOT ENSURE THAT THE ENTIRE BUILDING COLLAPSES. IT WOULD KEEP THE NON DAMAGED PORTIONS OF THE BUILDING WERE THERY WERE. THAT MEANS STILL STANDING IN THE SAME LOCATION UNDAMAGED.HELLOOOO

can you read? why are you intentionally blinding yourself? would you be that humiliated to find out that you're wrong?

Additional Comment:
ok almost deadly here's what i want to do. i've come to the conclusion that you will choose ignorance over any rational debate. you do not konw what it means to come up with your own ideas so i want to show you how. i want to focus on one point only. i think asking you to read so much (very little) is part of the problem.

i'm going to ask you a question that i haven't seen or heard from any "conspiracy theorist" and i want your opinions. not rehased jargon.

if terrorists can hijack planes and crash them into america (who you obviously think cannot defend herself) why have they stopped doing it? why do they nto continue the attack and drop planes all over the place, including dropping them on our army?

[BlindMansTicket]

Lol, You're getting pissed off over history you don't agree with. Might as well be pissed off because the sky is blue.

[Mozzy]

i'd rather have my temper than keep grazing the brown pastures.

[A.D.]

I'm still pretty hazy as to what point Mozzy is trying to make. The WTC collapsed becuase a jet flew into each one. We weren't expecting an attack from the inside so we couldn't defend ourselves in time. So we took our army into Afganistan and kicked the shit out of them. I just don't see the whole point in thinking we did this to ourselves. Mozzy you strike me as someone who got brainwashed by a Michael Moore film...

If you have any proof whatsoever besides your own ranting then please post a link or whatever.

[SpoonMan999]

Spoonman and Almost deadly, if you can come up with any rational answer why wtc7 fell to the ground, and in the manner it did i will give your thoughts consideration. i know you will just quote someone else, or use someone else's judgment as your own so that you can put yourself in a position of superiority in these here forums, but even so i'd like to see you try. it kinda hurts to see people like yourselves, capable of expressing yourself excpet not having the first clue who you are or what you care about. at least not online.

i know it's difficult to digest the fact that your life is nothing but a swollen zit on the ass of whoever is really in charge. and that's only true in a certain sense anyway. and that sense is power and money. for myself, i've never really had a problem accepting things the way they are, at least as best i can percieve.

as far as 9/11 goes, this is simply one example of corruption in the history of humanity. i know you two will be the first to condemn any who challenges popular history and beliefs as a conspirator (sp) but so was galilleo and many others who challenged the catholic church and other govt. authorities. personally, i believe that people like yourselves are wrapped in a make-believe blanket that your make-believe mommy has put around you to keep you safe and warm. that blanket is your "spirituallity". someone inside, far back in your brain you are programmed to believe in christianity or whatever religion you believed in when you were a young teenager and have since abandoned. you cannot come to terms or rationalize with the fact that there is no god on a white horse coming to save you, and that 50% or more of everything you've been told is a malicious lie. on teh surface of your mind thoughts like these will never rise but deep inside you feel that your life/soul will be justified and rewarded for whatever it is that your'e doing at some point in your future. you do not realize that life will never be fair or just unless you take accountability for yourself and do something about it.

oh btw, as far as the draft is concerned that's just a point. i'm sure whoever is in charge would enjoy an all volunteer army much more than having draftees. but it is interesting that that is the ONLY point i made that you can dispute using your OWN common sense and information instead of spewing some nonsense someone else told you to believe. this is also the only point i made that is debatable.

now you tell me, is that a coincedence or a conspiracy??
try to understand

Hold on a second I need a little time to stop laughing...














Ok, I'm good. I'll address the issues here one at a time, as usual.

Spoonman and Almost deadly, if you can come up with any rational answer why wtc7 fell to the ground, and in the manner it did i will give your thoughts consideration. i know you will just quote someone else, or use someone else's judgment as your own so that you can put yourself in a position of superiority in these here forums, but even so i'd like to see you try. it kinda hurts to see people like yourselves, capable of expressing yourself excpet not having the first clue who you are or what you care about. at least not online.

I'm sorry, but where is the original idea that you presented? Oh wait, you're using other people's research and ideas and agreeing with them? I guess it's only wrong for me to do so if I disagree with you?

i know it's difficult to digest the fact that your life is nothing but a swollen zit on the ass of whoever is really in charge. and that's only true in a certain sense anyway. and that sense is power and money. for myself, i've never really had a problem accepting things the way they are, at least as best i can percieve.

as far as 9/11 goes, this is simply one example of corruption in the history of humanity. i know you two will be the first to condemn any who challenges popular history and beliefs as a conspirator (sp) but so was galilleo and many others who challenged the catholic church and other govt. authorities. personally, i believe that people like yourselves are wrapped in a make-believe blanket that your make-believe mommy has put around you to keep you safe and warm. that blanket is your "spirituallity". someone inside, far back in your brain you are programmed to believe in christianity or whatever religion you believed in when you were a young teenager and have since abandoned. you cannot come to terms or rationalize with the fact that there is no god on a white horse coming to save you, and that 50% or more of everything you've been told is a malicious lie. on teh surface of your mind thoughts like these will never rise but deep inside you feel that your life/soul will be justified and rewarded for whatever it is that your'e doing at some point in your future. you do not realize that life will never be fair or just unless you take accountability for yourself and do something about it.

Spirituality? God? AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA...I love how you assume to know anything about me and got everything so damned wrong. Let me enlighten you, I'm not religious and in fact I'm Agnostic. I know the world is a steaming cess pool and I know in the grand scheme of things my life is just as worthless as your's I just want to live my life and enjoy as much as I can. If I were sitting here and waiting for God to swoop down and save me I would have shot myself from the pure grief of the dissapointment years ago. Get off your ****ing high horse and stop trying to play psycholigist jackass. Not all Republicans are religious, perhaps you should have more of an open mind. Practice what you preach.

oh btw, as far as the draft is concerned that's just a point. i'm sure whoever is in charge would enjoy an all volunteer army much more than having draftees. but it is interesting that that is the ONLY point i made that you can dispute using your OWN common sense and information instead of spewing some nonsense someone else told you to believe. this is also the only point i made that is debatable.

It's the only point that you made that's debatable? I think Deadly just debated the other's, using facts from a reputable magazine and not conspiracy theory videos he downloaded from the internet.

now you tell me, is that a coincedence or a conspiracy??
try to understand

Is what a coincidence? You thinking your point can't be debated? I don't see how it could possibly fall under conspiracy so either you're kind of stupid or you need to be more specific instead of having your point jump all over the damned place because you have no clear train of thought.

And one more thing...I offer no opinion of my own on structural integrity and such things because I know nothing about the subject other than what I read from people considered to be experts in the field. So yes, I will quote and use someone elses opinion to formulate my own because to come on here and preach like I know what I'm talking about when I have no damned clue would be to become you.

[Mozzy]

actually there was a skyscraper that took a direct hit from a jumbo jet that stood perfectly still. i saw a video or picture but no i don't remember where. not that it would matter you would just call a duck a buffalo.

you guys are hopeless.

i just remembered, it was the empire state building. lol. if that doesn't open your eyes then nothing will. those building are designed with that type of situation in mind. same with the testing of the steel. but why would youc are, you just need someneo to feed your brain and you will be content working for the very govt. that loathes you.

maybe the things i say are half baked, but maybe that's all it takes to refute some of this nonsense. i don't believe either of you actually read articles like the PM one you showed me. i think you just look at it and say to yourself "somone figured this out already". maybe not even that much you probably just want to cause i stir. i was a fool for assuming that someone might listen.

actually i believe that you stupid americans are getting exactly what you deserve. hardly anyone votes, no one gives a shit. why should the govt.?

"every country has the government it deserves" mark twain.

[BlindMansTicket]

i'd rather have my temper than keep grazing the brown pastures.

Kick your parents asses for me.

[SpoonMan999]

You know in all of this you have shown us a C-Span report on it yet with any new point you bring up you provide no evidence or even a source. You call us close minded yet just as you claim we're doing you don't consider any of the evidence provided for you. This is what we call hypocrisy.

[BlindMansTicket]

you guys are hopeless.

i just remembered, it was the empire state building. lol. if that doesn't open your eyes then nothing will. those building are designed with that type of situation in mind. same with the testing of the steel. but why would youc are, you just need someneo to feed your brain and you will be content working for the very govt. that loathes you.

You're ****ing hopeless. Just accept what happened, happend. NOTHING IS GOING TO CHANGE. A plane hit a building, it fell. Close the book. It happened.

If you think you can actually accomplish something, write your congressman. He probably won't get the point you're trying to make (we certainly don't), but at least you've tried. Ranting and raving about the past here just makes you look like a loonie.

[A.D.]

The reason I believe PM's article (yes, I read the entire thing, unlike you) is that everything they say makes so much damn sense to me, and to top it all off they were able to provide where they got all these answers from and for the most part these sources sound solid and credible to me. That is why I choose to believe that this was a terrorist act against the U.S.

actually there was a skyscraper that took a direct hit from a jumbo jet that stood perfectly still. i saw a video or picture but no i don't remember where. not that it would matter you would just call a duck a buffalo.

you guys are hopeless.

i just remembered, it was the empire state building.

I almost fell out of my chair when I read that. I don't think the Empire State Building has ever had a plane flown into it..

[Mozzy]

Spoonman-

i wish this thing wouldn't double post but that's ok. first of all deadly did not make any sense in his "debunking" of my debunking. and i think another round of the same is too much and pointless at the same time.

secondly, gnostics are a very strange breed and now that you've said that i'm sure that i'm right about you. i'm willing to bet that no gnostic in existence wasn't at some point in time a "christian" by the normal usage of that word. i figure you wasted a few years of your life taking the bible literally then one day you almost smartened up and decided to lower yourself into the pit of psuedo religion where no one can debunk your beliefs because no one cares enough to read the gnostic texts. mostly because a lot of those texts are incomplete and any translation of them is skeptical and opinionated at best. and that's on top of the skepticism related to any religion in the first place. since you've realizd that you're now taking the popular view with any mainstream ideas to try and fit back in with the society you never liked to begin with.

Additional Comment:
you don't think? but i'm sure you won't check will you?

Additional Comment:
http://www.evesmag.com/empirestatecrash.htm

this took 2 seconds to find, i dont' even know what it says. dozens of articles came up

[BlindMansTicket]

Agnostic isn't a religion or a breed (wtf, why would you think that)

There are no agnostic texts. You probably don't even know what it means.

[Mozzy]

interstingly, an engine did go down the elevator shaft and did start a fire. so PM was correct in this assumption. however, this still supports my argument because that fire did not cause the collapse of the entire building. and as you can see the building wasn't decimated by the 300 mph impact of the plane.

ok well i read it as gnostic. so it's not a religion he's talking about but agnosticism is still a cop out as far as beliefs are concerned.

[A.D.]

Ah, my apologies. I didn't realize this was a dated 'video clip' as you described.
A B-25 bomber is not a Jumbo Jet at all. Anyways by the picture it's plain to see why it didn't fall, seeing as how small the plane was.

Agnostic isn't a religion or a breed (?)

There are no agnostic texts. You probably don't even know what it means.

I'm pretty sure it's obvious he doen't know what Agnostic means, or much else for that matter.

[BlindMansTicket]

So you have to believe in something you can't see to be a good person?

[Mozzy]

almost deadly you replied with about the amount of intelligence i expect from you. of course a b25 is not a jumbo jet. but the both carry fuel don't they? after all it was the fire (such as you say) that cause the collapse nto the plane itself. evena moron like you can agree to something like that.

blind man i have no idea what you're saying.

[Dan]

mozzy you need to show some more sources, maybe actually find the god damn link to a cspan article, cause nothing u have said has actually been backed up by anyone reasonably smart, just some backwater websites with people spouting what they think with no real knowledge.


BTW: a B-25 wouldnt use the same fuel as modern jets, i believe it was a turbo prop plane from WW-II, try burning up a building with your can of gasoline in your garage u use for your lawnmower